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Direct Mail Cold Calling with Gary Boomershine


In this episode, Larry invited a good friend and fellow mastermind member, Gary Boomershine. Gary Boomershine founded in 2005 out of the need to scale and grow his own real estate investing and home buying business.

With a family legacy in the real estate niche and a long successful career in enterprise and emerging technology markets, Gary noticed the glaring opportunity to leverage people, processes, and technology to gain a leg up in a changing and competitive marketplace. offers its flagship product, REIvault, to the savvy investor market.

REIvault caters to top producing agents, investors, and smaller hedge funds who are looking for a competitive advantage in their local markets. Under the leadership of Gary Boomershine, this service has launched a “technology revolution” within the real estate niche; offering an alternative to the MLS by bringing pre-screened motivated sellers and buyers face-to-face at the right time.

In today’s episode, Gary shares what's working and not working right now, among many others.


  • How he got into real estate
  • What REIvault is
  • Find people that are making money and have the model, replicate, and get onboard with them
  • Join mastermind groups
  • The market is hot right now
  • What's working right now
  • - Direct Mail
  • - Cold calling
  • - Door knocking
  • - Pay-per-click
  • Cost per deal and profit per deal
  • It's important to have an ISA that is working the leads
  • On sending out postcards
  • Having a follow-up system
  • Using other people's money and leveraging other people's resources, experience, and time
  • The off-market funnel
  • Lead processors
  • Leverage on people
  • Processes
  • Simple systems
  • REIvault R.A.P.I.D. Results EOS Scorecard
  • How REIvault works
  • The value of having a community and like-minded people together
  • His ideal client
  • The budget someone needs to have


  • "It's not just what works, it's also what doesn't work."
  • "Do not reinvent the wheel."
  • "Be in mastermind groups."



Larry: Welcome to the Brain Pick-A-Pro show live from Lake Wylie, South Carolina. I’m Larry Goins. Thanks for watching, guys. As you know, this is the show where I bring in other educators, other real estate people, people who are in the trenches doing deals, who know what they’re doing. If they’re on the show, they know what they’re doing, they’ve been around the block, and my special guest today is a good friend. I’ve known him for, man, I don’t know, maybe fifteen years. It’s been a long, long, long time and this guy is the man, the legend, the myth. He’s really good. He knows – he’s got his finger on the pulse and knows what’s working in marketing. This guy does more direct mail than anybody in the world, okay? I don’t care if you own a chain of grocery stores, right? He does more direct mail than you, okay? Please give a warm welcome, my good friend, fellow Mastermind member as well, Gary Boomershine. What’s up, buddy?

Gary: Oh, man, what an awesome warm welcome. Hey, everybody. Super, super excited to finally do this, Larry. We’ve been talking about me coming in and sharing what’s working in content to your members and I am – I’m pumped up. Actually, I just got back from Tulum, Mexico, in another Mastermind as well.

Larry: Those guys are awesome, aren’t they?

Gary: Oh, they really are. Actually, yeah, they’re really, really good guys. Thirty-four totally wired, centered entrepreneurs, mostly seven figure. The wives actually came and so there was a separate session for wives and it was awesome, man. Life-changing experience. I’m pumped up to be here and do some good stuff for your people.

Larry: That’s awesome. Well, cool. Why don’t you start out and tell our viewers and listeners a little bit about who is Gary Boomershine?

Gary: Yeah, awesome. I’ll make this quick. My backstory, you know, it’s funny. You know, I think – I know you’ve been in real estate longer than me. I actually went full time, full time I left – as my wife and I were just chatting about it, I had a two-month-old daughter, a four-year-old daughter, a $700,000 mortgage in California, and we went cold turkey into real estate, we burned the boats May 17, 2004, man, and got a lot of lessons learned and a lot of – I spent a lot of time, you know, it’s not just what works, it’s also what doesn’t work, right? And so my backstory, I’m from California, grew up in Silicon Valley. I actually grew up in a real estate family. We – my parents had a brokerage and we were buying rental properties and the negative side was we were all forced almost at gunpoint to get our real estate license so two weeks after turning eighteen – by the way, I’m turning fifty, so that gives you kind of, you know, that was 1987. I was a licensed realtor and held open houses and that’s how I actually helped pay for college and absolutely hated it. I had no interest in the realtor side so I got a computer engineering degree and told my dad I didn’t want – I was going down a different path and it was awesome. I got recruited at one of the biggest technology consulting firms in the world called Accenture and it was so awesome, man. I was working ninety-hour weeks and being in the inside of buildings and never actually seeing sunlight, you know, corporate world.

Larry: Yeah, yeah.

Gary: And then I got recruited to four technology startups, one that’s now an $8 billon division of IBM and, man, there was no time for my wife, there was no time for my daughters, we were just – we were burnt out and it was 2004 that we said, “You know what, let’s go back to our roots, let’s buy some apartments,” and, man, that started a whole journey. A whole journey of like, you know, learning and so I’ve bought and sold over 450 houses. I do a lot of private lending today. I’m a wholesaler. I do creative deals and I do lending in four markets, including the Bay area, San Francisco Bay area, and more than anything people know me for REIvault. I’ll share a little bit about what that is. It’s a small group. The idea came in a Mastermind. Actually, the same Mastermind that you and I were part of, Collective Genius, and I’m like, man, we got some smart people. We’re all doing the same thing, we’re having to do direct mail, we’re having to build a phone team, we’re having to figure out the systems and this system and that system, I’m like, why don’t we just build one team to do it for all of us? And so that company now has about 250 top-performing investors and agents all over the country. We’ve done over 27 million pieces of direct mail and I shared this with you right before we started. I just ran the math. We’ve done over, in the last couple months, we’ve done over 244,000 outbound phone calls to sellers. Not to buyers, just to sellers, and actually turned a pretty good conversion rate so learned a lot and I’m here to share like what’s working and hopefully it helps a bunch of people that might have some stocks and, yeah, let’s do it.

Larry: That’s awesome, man. That’s awesome. Well, thanks so much for sharing a little bit about who you are and what you do but, man, you are, I mean, you know what’s working right now and you know what’s not working right now, so why don’t you just go ahead and jump in and share with our listeners and viewers what’s going on?

Gary: Yeah. Let me say just right off the bat a couple of nuggets, just things that I’ve learned that I would, you know, especially if you’re, you know, fairly new, even if you’re four or five years into this business or you’re running into any stocks. Number one is don’t reinvent the wheel. Do not reinvent the wheel. There’s nothing new under the sun in real estate. You wanna go and find the person or the people that are doing and making money and really have the model like you, Larry, and replicate and get on board with them. Lots of lessons learned in the early days but it’s like go out and find – like, for instance, you. You actually gave me, I said, “Hey, Larry, I’ve got a stock,” and you connected me with the resource [inaudible 0:05:58]. By the way, it just started this morning, thank you.

Larry: Awesome, awesome.

Gary: And then be in Mastermind groups, that would be number two. So let me just walk through what’s working. This market right now, and you know this, this is probably one of the hottest markets I’ve ever seen. It’s looking like 2006, 2007. There is so much money to be made and it’s part of the cycle. So, really if you’re in real estate, this is a really great time. Number two, this is an off-market market. That means you gotta go direct to sellers. About five years ago, we were buying on the MLS, right? All the deal flow is bank-owned REOs and foreclosure auctions and so that’s where we went as long as you had money, but today that’s all saturated. Today, it’s all off market. So what does that mean? You gotta go direct to the seller, and if you can control the deal flow and the people out there that are controlling the deal flow as sellers are making a fortune, right? Just you and I chat about this in our Mastermind. So, how do you do that? What’s working right now? Direct mail. And I’m gonna say, you know, there’s some keys to making direct mail work and, by the way, it’s not just the mailing list and it’s not just the postcard or the little yellow, you know, whatever it is, there’s something else I’m gonna share that will change the success of it, but it’s direct mail, cold calling. Cold calling is crushing it right now, especially in some of the more competitive markets. I would tell everybody, if you get this thing right, you’re making a lot of money. I’ll walk through our results. The reason cold calling is working is most people are not doing it. And then, of course, you do have door knocking, you’ve got pay per click, you know, buying ads, etc., but we wanna talk about really marketing and cold calling and another nugget I wanna share is, gosh, I talk to so many real estate investors that they – I don’t know whether they’ve been trained incorrectly, but the most important thing that you need to think about in marketing is what is the cost per deal and then what is the profit per deal. So, what does it cost in terms of marketing, right, to get a deal and then, let’s say you’re in Florida and it cost you $2,500 to get a deal.Conservatively, right?You spent $2,500 and you’re making $20,000 right? You run the math. It’s 7, 8, 100 percent, you know, a 7x ROI, so wholesaling right now, you and I know this, I know you share this, but typically wholesalers should be making between a 6x and 10x ROI off of marketing. That means you spend a dollar – every dollar you spend, you should be making somewhere between $6 and $10 if you’re doing it right, and so the reason I say that is mindset. So many investors get stuck in the muck in quicksand, nickeling and diming on, you know, the cost of the list and is it 3 cents or is it 50 cents or $30,000, if you’re going to Chris Richter as an example. You know, they get stuck on that, they get stuck on like the minute thing. They’re saving pennies and nickels when it’s costing them $10 bills, so it’s really the cost per deal and the profit per deal and I’m gonna walk through like what’s working and all that.

Larry: That’s awesome, man. You know, that’s really, really good stuff. I’ve already got a page full of notes here. I really like what you said about, you know, ’cause I’ve heard some people say, you know, you should get 4x your list, right, 4x your cost, but I’m thinking, man, that’s kinda low. I’ve heard multiple people say that and I’m so glad that you said six to ten times because, I mean, we’re spending about $8,000 a month right now. Getting ready to bump that up to $12,000. We’re mailing 25,000 pieces, we’re getting ready to mail about 37,500, I believe, but we’re doing, you know, $80,000 to $100,000 a month in income, or in assignments, I should say, as a wholesaler. So, man, your numbers are right on it. Everybody else, they’re low balling. They should be increasing their revenue, don’t you think?

Gary: Absolutely. You know, every company, every company in America, real company, right, not just a one-person show, every real company, they have a marketing team, right? They have a marketing budget. You spend – marketing, it’s typically – by the way, I’ll just tell you, the national average for marketing, most companies budget 6 to 8 percent of their overall gross profit is in the marketing function. There is no – real estate has some of the – actually, I think it has the highest ROI on marketing and so it’s really important. Second thing, it’s so funny that you said this. Clint Bartlett and Jeff Cohn, big hitters, these guys are out of Nebraska, they were down there with me. These guys are doing pretty high volume and signed up for REIvault and they were walking me through. Their average cost per deal is $4,000 a deal in Nebraska and we’re talking about –

Larry: Nebraska.

Gary: I’m like, hey, Clint, let me just tell you. The bar is so low for us to crush it for you. Let me just tell you, in Nebraska, you’re looking at probably $700 to maybe $1,000 a deal, worst-case scenario, if you really suck on the sales side, and I see that, we have another guy, Will Hall, he’s been doing fifteen deals a month and it was the same thing. His average cost is $4,200 in an easy market where we’ve got another guy, Clay Manship, who – his cost per deal, he did over $2 million just off of direct mail and wholesale profits last year in Indianapolis and his overall spend, by the way, is $7,000 a month. I think his cost per deal is like $300 a deal.

Larry: Oh my God.

Gary: No, $300, now let me tell everybody this is, gosh, this is the biggest secret. I shouldn’t even say a secret, it’s so basic, but what is the difference – what do you have to have, if you’re doing direct mail or cold calling, there is one thing that’s absolutely required and it’s also really important, it’s not you, and that is a phone team that is working the leads, alright? The function is called an ISA, an inside sales agent, so as the leads come in, one of the most profitable functions is a person that’s actually calling, screening, following up, and scheduling an appointment. We built that team, by the way. We built that over the last year and a half. I think it’s like $2 an hour is what we charge for that team. They actually do all the phone follow-up. We’re able to do it because – the reason I say that is here’s what we’re finding. We’re finding that you have to dial – the average seller, alright, to get a seller back on the phone, once they come in as a lead, it’s averaging ten dials, ten times trying to get the seller back on the phone.

Larry: Back. After they call in –

Gary: That’s right. They called, maybe left a message with PATLive, may they left a voicemail, maybe it was a missed call like a hang up, but getting them back on the phone, we’re seeing – it takes ten dials in order to get them back on the phone. You want somebody kissing frogs all day long, and that is the difference. The guys and gals, they’re crushing it right now. Have a dedicated ISA. Okay, this is different. This is different than somebody that’s answering the call live, right? A lead comes in. I’m talking about somebody that’s working the leads and calling all day long. An average good phone person manually dialing can dial 100 to 125 seller dials a day, and if they’re on an auto-dialer the way we do it, they can do about 250. You want somebody doing that all day long. I know that’s in the weeds, but I’m just telling you, if you get that right, you’re making a lot of money. You know that. I mean, how many times, at CG, it’s like having a phone person doing the follow-up is key.

Larry: Absolutely. Man, I’m still taking notes. I have stuff in the margins now.

Gary: Let me share a couple things. So, you send out direct mail, and we can go into what list and what I’m finding that’s working. It’s really funny. One of the best postcards is one that Brad Chandler from Express Homebuyers, that nobody is doing. It’s fantastic, I’ll share that with your group. We’re getting a 4 percent response rate on a postcard where everybody else that’s doing that pink doodle thing. You know what I’m talking about? I can show it to everybody. You’re doing it, you wanna just switch to this one postcard, it’ll crush it for you, but you send out the postcards, you really wanna answer the calls live. We’re seeing the best results if you’ve got somebody answering the calls live. We actually set that up for our members and it’s like, “Hey, here’s – you don’t have to worry about it.” The leads come in and there’s gonna be some low-hanging fruit. The ones that you close, right? Right off the bat.

Larry: Right.

Gary: But here’s the reality. The reality is most of the money is coming in the leads and working as a follow-up so for everyone that you close, you’re probably looking at three to five to six more deals. So, you close one, easy one, you probably have another six to eight deals off of the ones that maybe the seller said they’re not interested. Those leads are gold, by the way, if they say they’re not interested. You just have to wait four months and then start ’em up. Second thing is you have the leads come in, it’s really important to put them on a follow-up system where you’re sending out text messages and ringless voicemail and then getting them over to the phone team. We automate all that. That’s really important though because, this is across all industries, that 80 percent of the profits, 80 percent of the profits come between the fifth and the twelfth interaction with the seller and most investors never follow up more than twice. So, 80 percent of the profits, and so a lot of people, I hear this over and over again, they’re like, “Ah, I’ve done direct mail, it doesn’t work,” or, “My market’s so competitive,” and it’s like, you know what? You’re so close, you’re three feet from gold, and do a couple of these things and, boom, and all of a sudden –

Larry: You need most leads. Give me those leads.

Gary: So, here’s another thing. A misnomer for a lot of people, a lot of people are like they’re chasing the fairy dust, right? The shiny object people. They’re trying to get the better list. They want the Glengarry leads, right? It’s like, “Oh, I’m looking for this list or that list,” or “I’m looking for a better postcard.” Let me just tell you, it’s not that. The list is important but here’s what you need – all leads suck. You need to realize and train your team. All leads suck. You have to have dialogue with the seller a few times to warm them up. So, it’s kinda like, you know, you get a box, think of leads as a box of gold, you know, you got some rocks and you got some massively profitable pieces of gold but they all look like rocks. You have to shine them up a little bit, brothers and sisters. So, how do we do that? You bring the leads in, you close a few over the phone easy, then get everybody else into a text, ringless voicemail, by the way, some people, not to go into the weeds, but we use live broadcast. All it is is it’s a prerecorded message that bypasses the person’s phone and leaves them a voicemail followed by following up and having somebody scheduling appointments for you and that was really what we did with REIvault, saying, “Hey, you know what? There’s a lot of moving parts, let’s just do this for people and get them in front of sellers,” right? Aren’t real estate investors, didn’t we want time and not having to have another J-O-B? That’s why I go back, you know, years ago, it’s like just get me in front of motivated sellers and let me close that, right?

Larry: Right, right.

Gary: Right? I don’t wanna get stuck in talking about list and infusionsoft or freedomsoft or thissoft or thatsoft, right? It’s like everybody gets so stuck in the muck. The other thing is we learned about OPM, using other people’s money. There’s things that are even more important. Leveraging other people’s resources, leveraging other people’s experience, leveraging other people’s time, right? Cold calling is a $4 to $10 an hour function, right? So, if you’re doing that, realize you’re making $4 to $10 an hour, right? Less than minimum wage, so that is a, you know, where is the most money, where should us real estate investors be spending our time? It should be in front of sellers, talking to the best sellers, making offers, and working with buyers and closing deals. Amen, brother?

Larry: That’s exactly right, man. I couldn’t have said it better myself. That’s so true. We need to be on the phone or face to face.

Gary: Yeah. I’ve got a – let’s see, This is really for off market. This is the funnel, right? This is the funnel. You have to do these things and get them all to work and what comes out of the funnel is money, so the number one is you do marketing, right? You have to do marketing which is things like direct mail, whether you’re doing postcards, letters, maybe pay per click, Facebook ads, maybe you’re doing cold calling. That is what is called marketing and you’re gonna notice on the left hand side, these are $10 an hour functions, right? It’s not – it’s a huge amount of time and effort, then you got the fulfillment. You gotta figure out the mailing house, right? What mail house you’re gonna use, making sure that they don’t screw it up. You gotta make sure you got the right mailing list, you gotta get it cleaned up, and you gotta make it consistent so that you’re dropping mail every single week, right? If the marketing stops, your business stops. Then the third thing is you need a mouse trap. Those are the systems and you want really simple systems. Some people use Podio or Investorfuse. You also have Callrail or the – you know, whatever the phone system is and Slybroadcast. It’s really the systems or the mouse trap that tracks all of the leads coming in and then –

Larry: Right.

Gary: And then you got sellers that are actually coming in so you gotta make sure that you got the right person doing the inbound phone work, right? Taking the call live. It could be LiveAnswer, maybe it’s a PATLive or Call Porter, I love them. Maybe it’s a prerecorded message, maybe it’s a website, and then, typically, there’s a little bit of research that could be done, usually automated, if done properly, that’s the way we do it, but being able to pull the property address, the comparables, right? Of what’s selling. Having that information before you get on the phone with the seller makes you, you know, lightning sharp, your close rates are gonna be a lot higher, right, having that done, then you’ve got the outbound. This is what I was talking about of ISA, so this is the outbound phone team because a lot of these leads, the money is in the follow-up, so some people call ’em lead processors. They have to be scripted, right? The right words at the right time to get a yes out of the seller. Somebody has to manage and train them, all the follow-ups and scheduling the appointment, right, so you as the investor, all you have to do is make sure that you’re showing up or getting on the phone with a pre-screened, you know, ready-to-go seller. Then, the ones that don’t close, we’ve got the follow-up drip system. That’s keeping in front of the seller, you know, Todd Toback –

Larry: Oh, yeah. I know him well.

Gary: Yeah, Todd came up with the “No seller left behind” concept. That is so brilliant.

Larry: I know, right?

Gary: Right? The money, there is so much money. Here’s the reality. One in about twelve leads. One in twelve leads, specifically off of direct mail, typically should convert into a deal, and I see people that are like, one in eighty, right? And the reason is they’ve got everything working. They’ve got the right list, they got the right system, they’re not doing any follow-up and they don’t have any follow-up text messages and things going out, okay? So, this is typically, what happens is most investors get stuck in the muck because they’re doing all of this and that’s really where REIvault came in. We just said, look, let’s just have an expert team for the cost, it’s like a team of forty people for the cost of one, which means about $2 an hour. It’s like you have $10 an hour, is your time worth $10 an hour? We’ll set up the system, we’ll do it all for you. Done. And so I think this is good. You know, a lot of people, I wanna use an analogy, Larry. Everybody says, oh, my gosh, Gary, that’s either – some of my concepts are either really great or some that are really terrible so you can tell me. But, you know, a restaurant, here’s a restaurant. Imagine a restaurant where you got the person that is taking the orders, right?

Larry: Right.

Gary: Is also the one cooking the food. Right?

Larry: Right, right.

Gary: And then the same person’s cooking the food and then they’re also doing the dishwashing and cleaning it up, right? Now, that’s not a scalable business, so what you end up doing is it’s really the leveraging of people because you get massive. If you can take somebody at $10 an hour and you can actually turn that into a profit of $30,000, you know, $15,000, that’s huge leverage. That’s more leverage. We get more leverage off of people than we do off of using other people’s money. So, a lot of people get stuck because they’ve been trained, you know, oh, I’m gonna do it all by myself. It’s like, no, there’s so much money, right? And a lot of people, that’s where they’re three feet from gold. So, hopefully that’s helped. You know, a lot of people, they start out and we all have to do it ourselves for the first two or three deals just like going back to the kitchen, it’s like, hey, if you’re doing the dishes and you’re taking the orders and you’re making the food, that’s like mom and dad, right?

Larry: Right.

Gary: Is that scalable? Yeah, you can do a meal or two here and there, but if you’re really trying to make money in this business, you really wanna learn the art of people. And here it is. This comes from every corporate company. People first. It’s people. You wanna have good people, leverage on people. Number two is processes and then the third is simple systems. And a lot of investors get stuck making everything so – they work the system first and they’re, you know, putting, you know, InvestorFuse and they spend all their time on CRM and they forget, oh, my gosh, I actually am not making any money unless I’m talking to sellers and closing deals.

Larry: That’s true. That’s so true. That’s what I spend my day doing.

Gary: Yeah.

Larry: Talking with people who are ready, willing, and able. Well, I don’t know about willing yet, but…

Gary: Yeah, absolutely. So, anyway, if you found this helpful, this is just a good reminder. It’s Gosh, one other tool I wanna give to everybody. I did this for our group because it really takes all the mystery out of the numbers and I did it for a couple of Masterminds, but there is a I’ll put this on. I need to put a little bit more training, a training video, but this is – if anybody – I don’t know if you talk about Traction or EOS on some of your calls –

Larry: Yeah, a lot of people. A lot of people – a lot of our followers do understand Traction and Rocket Fuel, EOS. I recommend the book Traction. It’s all about – it’s called Entrepreneurial Operating System: How to Run Your Business. There you go. That’s it.

Gary: This was a life changer for me. If you don’t have this book, this is actually what got my life back, by the way. Terrible workaholic, you know, working long hours, and it wasn’t until – it was about five years ago that we truly implemented it. Reason I say that is this tool that I’m giving you will provide you all – it will take all the mystery out of your – what we call the score card. What I mean by that is –

Larry: Exactly.

Gary: You plug in your financial goal, let’s say you wanna make $600,000, let’s say you wanna make a million bucks this year, okay? You’re gonna plug in a million bucks, your profit per deal is really important. What’s your average profit per deal? If you don’t know, yes, so, you know, like I’m in the market, Salt Lake City as an example is $22,500, California, I’m at $33,000 for my deals. It will tell you, okay, the number of months to achieve the goal and it will show you the number of deals that you need to do, so you make $15,000, you wanna do a million, that’s sixty-seven deals, alright? Cost per lead, you can leave this. This is typically about average, $40 in order to generate a lead. A lead is a unique call. Seller comes in off a website, if they hit it three times, it’s only – you got one lead, right? So what this does, and I don’t wanna go too far into the weeds, but this is really a lot of people have given me feedback that this has been a life saver, but it shows you the number of deals you need to close per month and that profit and it will give you the marketing budget. It will actually show you what your marketing budget is gonna look like and there’s your 6.3x ROI. Okay? And what your cost per deal is, and this is constantly changing based on the numbers that you’re plugging in, and then there’s a sales component of like, okay, how many contracts do you sign in order to get a deal? And then how many appointments do you actually – how many sellers do you typically have to talk to in order to get a contract, so goes pretty much in the weeds but it will give you all of your score card metrics. It will say you need to do this and make a million bucks, you need 335 leads, you need to dial per month, okay, 335 leads, you need to dial – the phone needs to be dialed, whether a seller picks up or not, 1,340 times. And you need – somebody needs to talk to 268 sellers to schedule 34 appointments to get eight contracts and, bomb, and there’s your profit, you know, profit per lead at $250, right? You spend $40, you get $250 back. Every phone dial, check this out, every time somebody dials the phone, whether a seller answers or not right now, is worth $62.50, right? And when I go back to importance of having a phone person, there it is. That’s the gold mine.

Larry: That’s awesome, man. I love that. I just went to that link, I’ve got two monitors up here as well, so I just went to that link and, man, it’s just phenomenal. That’s huge. I love that calculator.

Gary: I got a spreadsheet version of it. I’m gonna post that, but, you know, hopefully, that helps. I need to put another – I’m actually doing a training video today so by the time that we actually have the podcast live, we should have another training video but, you know, if you need some help, we’re happy to help you with this if you want., you can check us out and our team can help. I think, you know, a lot of us, we don’t have long runway. Some people, especially if you’re fairly new, right? You don’t have a long runway and you really need to make this business work and it’s like, if you know, if you knew, I think of it like marketing is like a bank. Imagine that the bank was having a sale and they said, “Hey, you bring as many dollar bills into the bank and we’re gonna exchange them for a $5 bill,” right? Pretty much a guarantee, so you spend – you bring a dollar in and you get a $5 crisp bill. Wouldn’t we be bringing in wheelbarrows of money?

Larry: Exactly.

Gary: So, that’s what we wanna do. As a business owner looking to scale our business, we want to take the uncertainty and have clarity around it and then have the right people and then the right processes and simple systems, I say simple because, oh, my gosh, Javier, we got a guy that – he and his wife a year ago were working together and they’re now in four markets and have a monster team. I think they’re gonna – I think they’re grossing over $3.5 million this year, in one year. Clay Manship, same thing. Super simple systems. He’s in Indianapolis. He started three years ago. He’s a young guy. I think he’s actually just getting married, but started three years ago. He was a sales acquisition manager for somebody else, and his first year, he made $155,000. The second year, $850,000, and then last year, 2018, he did over $2 million in wholesale profits alone in the Indianapolis market. He showed us our numbers. He actually did a webinar with our group showing like how he does it and super simple, he’s like – he sends out the two campaigns, the two mail, so we do all of his direct mail, he spends about $7,000 a month. When he started, I think it was like $1,500.

Larry: Right.

Gary: And we worked with him, he started making money, it’s like we’re coaching him, saying, “Hey, scale up and scale up,” so, anyway, love that guy. You wanna get it working and then scale up.

Larry: That’s awesome. Who did you say that was in Indianapolis?

Gary: Yeah, Clay Manship. He’s actually on – I think I have – I think there’s – at, there’s actually a video of him. He actually did – it was really cool. We have a private Facebook group and then all of a sudden, Clay Manship actually went, “Clay Manship live,” right, on Facebook Live and recorded an awesome video and I’m like, “Clay, can I post this? This is so like motivating and I think this would really help a lot of other people around the country know that it’s real and doable,” and he’s awesome. He’s actually been helping – we’ve connected him. He’s helped other people in REIvault. Part of our community of helping one another.

Larry: That’s great, man. That’s great. I love it. I love it. We go way back. I’ve known you for a long time and you’re always, always on the cutting edge of technology. Whatever it is to do with technology and systems and processes and procedures, I mean, you’re a systems guy, right?

Gary: I am. You know, it’s funny. I’m actually more of a sales guy. I’m really good building teams. I’m really good on processes, and I’ve got really good people. I have – we have over sixty people on the team. It actually might be over seventy right now. A large, in actually multiple continents, a team that runs through walls, so one of the things I’ll tell you is our team is so committed to our members and the success, it’s really – that’s the thing that I’m – I would say if I’m really good at anything, I’m building really good people and processes and systems and getting that to scale. I hear that over and over again. They’re like, man, your people – it’s high touch, right? There’s a lot of moving parts for doing direct mail, so REIvault, really, we’re basically the staff. We become your extended team. So what happens is, hey, you’re ready to scale, we’re gonna basically become part of your team, right? You don’t have to train us, you don’t have to manage us, you don’t have to do anything. We’re gonna do that for you. We build a marketing plan, we’re gonna execute the marketing, we’re gonna set up the systems, we’re gonna teach you the things that you need to know, and then we’re going to do all the phone follow-up if you want and get you in front of sellers and then work with you ongoing on how to scale, so we come up with the plan, we take all the mystery, we’ll even predict what we believe your results are gonna look like, and then we’re gonna look at it, we’re gonna execute it, and in four weeks – four weeks later after we start, so you’re up and running within seven days. By ten days after signing up as a member, we got leads coming in, right? And then four weeks after that, we’re jumping back on a phone and we’re saying, “Hey, let’s look at how things are working and what your actuals are and then, you know, how can we help?” And we have office hours going on, there’s the community of people interacting. It’s really awesome and it’s, you know, Shawn Terry, by the way, was the one that recommended. I didn’t know – when I set this up, I didn’t know how to charge for it and Shawn basically said – you remember, you were at CG.

Larry: Yeah.

Gary: Shawn basically said, “Gary, if you could do all of this, you could do all the marketing, execute the marketing, you could do all the follow-up and the systems and you have the phone team and you charged the cost of one VA at $10 an hour to do all of it,” he goes, “You’d have all the right people that you wanted,” and so I did that and we haven’t changed it since. So it works out to about $10 an hour for the equivalent of a forty-person staff. We’re not gonna steal your pencils and drink your coffee ’cause we’re not sitting in your office.

Larry: Not gonna call in sick.

Gary: Right. Right. You don’t have to manage anybody. It’s really cool. You can focus on your business and then we’re connecting one another, you know? We got Tyler and Jennifer Amburn. He was a pilot, full-time pilot, and his wife was a former Dallas Cowboy cheerleader and he actually was able to finally quit his job. He went from four deals, we got him to eighteen deals last year, while he was part time, and now he’s able – he and his wife are going full time and we’re helping ’em through that, and also connecting him with other people in our group that have done that too, right? Including my wife. My wife is actually gonna get on the phone with Jennifer and give her some moral support, saying, “Hey, we’ve been there.” They have a three-month-old baby so that’s the value of the community and having like-minded people together.

Larry: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So, Gary, who is your ideal client? I mean, you can’t be everything to everybody. Who is your ideal client that you say, “Man, I can help you”?

Gary: Yeah, great point. Somebody that’s actually done some deals, a couple of deals. They can be fairly new, but they have some experience. You really need to be trained and coached like you need to come through, Larry. If you’re fairly new, we are an invite-only group, we’re not a vendor, so we got 250 members, we’ll probably take this up to 500, right? And so it’s a small, tight group. There’s semi-exclusivity so we don’t take everybody. Once we have a few people in one market, we don’t take anybody else, and we’re looking for people that are like-minded, they share our core values, you know, you’re teachable and that, you know, there’s a huge amount of accountability. You’re trusting us to take on one of the most important functions and we’re trusting you that you’re gonna actually get in front of the sellers and close the deals and you’re gonna do good things so we wanna make sure we got the right people and also people that are ready to scale, man, you know? They see marketing as an ROI and they’re like, “Hey, I’ve done a couple deals and, you know, I’m tired of like this system and that system and this list and that list,” it’s like, yeah, let us take it over. We’re experts. Oh, by the way, we guarantee the lowest cost mail. We guarantee that the mail going out through us is gonna be the least expensive. That’s a big one. Why? Because we’re sending out like a million pieces a month, right? Do you think that we get a little negotiating power with the data providers? We got two proprietary mailing lists that are really, really responsive and if you have your own mailing list, you could provide that to us and we clean it up, we manage it, we come up with a plan. You know, you’re interacting with us, it’s high touch, meaning if you send us an e-mail or you’re communicating, we’re on it within thirty minutes. You’re gonna get a response from us within thirty minutes saying, “Hey, we got it, we’re addressing it,” you know, you wanna add a zip code, change a zip code, need help, we’re here for you. It really is – it’s truly – you know, it’s a partnership, man. Our average members have been with us for twenty-seven months. I just checked that a couple days ago, so people are with us the long haul and if you’ve got a phone team already, we do have a version that works out to like $6 an hour, right? Equivalent. You don’t have anybody working directly, you have an entire organization behind you and working with you. It’s not like we’re gonna give you Sally over in Timbuktu that you gotta train and manage and hope that she’s not working for somebody else. It’s like we’re experts. We’re experts at getting your phone ringing. We’re experts at systems and we’re expert, you know, getting you in front of sellers.

Larry: So, whether or not I or anybody watching or listening, whether or not they’re actually going to the house and closing ’em in person, or whether or not they’re closing ’em over the phone, your people can set the lead and set the time for the business owner or your client to call them at that time and close them over the phone and if they don’t close ’em, they’ll continue to follow up.

Gary: That’s correct. The phone team will continue to follow up forever. The system will continue to interact and send them text messages and voicemails. It’s all coordinated. We actually do use Podio. We provide – whether somebody has their own system, that’s fine too, but we are the largest user in the world of Podio. We actually had over two million transactions last month on GlobiFlow, so a lot of people, Podio’s popular. I actually – Joe McCall was the one that actually told me about Podio about five years ago and I’m like, oh, let me just check this out, everybody’s talking Podio this, Podio that, so we actually went and, you know, I’ve got senior, senior guy that used to work for Clorox who – heavy, heavy hitter who runs our Podio team and it’s pretty tricked out, but we give that away pretty much for free.

Larry: I’ve seen it. It’s the bomb. I’ve never seen one that is in depth as it is. It was way over my head.

Gary: Yeah, and what’s really cool is if we set this thing up, there are situations where you wouldn’t even have to log in to Podio. We’re actually just putting you and pushing over the appointment over to you that says, you know what, we’re gonna get the leads, we’re gonna manage the leads, we’re gonna follow up with leads, we’re gonna schedule the appointments, and, ooh, there comes the money. So, you know, there is the capability. We do find there’s about two and a half hours of training videos and also you can – every single Wednesday, we’ve got a live call for people for training because I think really to maximize it, a little bit of training is necessary.

Larry: I agree.

Gary: Yeah, but hopefully that’s helpful. I do wanna show you – I probably won’t do it. I’ll give it for your show notes the postcard. There’s a pink postcard and there’s a white postcard and one that’s getting 4x, meaning four, you know, four times the results. I’ll give that to your group, you know, just say, hey, a loyal listener of Larry Goins and now a friend of mine and try it. If you’re doing it on your own or, hey, if you’re interested, if you’re really ready, there is no sales – you’re not gonna feel like there’s any sales cycle calling us. You can go out to There’s a see if you qualify. You can schedule an appointment, you get on with a live person, it’s ultimately gonna be Julia Jordan who herself has closed over 200 deals in Dallas. She’s awesome. She’s been with me for years, and she’d be on the phone and it’s like, hey, is this a good fit? We’ll make sure that we answer all your questions if it’s a good fit. There’s no long-term commitment, you know, we do want you to commit for ninety days ’cause there’s a lot of moving parts to get it up and running.

Larry: Sure.

Gary: But, you know, and you’ll definitely, you know, we speak straight, talk straight, that’s the one thing we hear often. We’re gonna tell you what we know. We’re gonna be excellent in doing it for you, and, you know, if it’s not a good fit, we’re also gonna say, hey, we don’t think, you know, we don’t think this is a fit yet, you need more coaching with Larry and get a couple more deals across the goal line and, boom, you know? This is a great partnership with Larry, if you’re in his coaching program, man, we can definitely help.

Larry: Well, and, you know, and it’s funny you mentioned that because we have a thing we call a partner program and it’s where I help them close their first three deals. Let’s get your first three deals and then you can start talking about scaling up, right? So, what type of budget do you see – does somebody need to have to come in, I mean, you know, you don’t want somebody that says, “Oh, I got $200 a month,” you know? That’s not gonna happen.

Gary: It’s a great question. Now, I will tell you. It ranges by market, and we can help you with that, but if you’re in the center part of the country, you’re not in like a crazy market like Dallas, Phoenix, Denver, California, you’re in, you know, Nebraska, you’re in Indiana, Minneapolis, your cost per deal is probably – we’re gonna recommend like a $1,500 a month budget to start. You can scale it up, scale it down however you want. You can pause it. If you’re in like Florida, you’re in most of the kind of the more hotter markets like Florida, maybe Oregon, we’re gonna basically say, hey, we’d recommend a $2,500 budget. If you’re in a super hot market, you know, if you’re in Dallas, you know, Dallas is an example, we’re gonna say, hey, you really – if you’re not spending $6,000 a month to start then you’re not serious about it, right? If you’re in Dallas, your profits are pretty – again, go – it works out to about 6x, right? Some really hard markets where people are not – they don’t have their team, it might be a 4x. You know, typically, $1,500 to $2,500 is – our average member is spending right now on average, over, you know, they’ve been with us, on average is $3,600 a month. We’ve got people that are spending $25,000 to $30,000 like Javier just scaled it up yesterday to $30,000 a month, so $30,000 a month in marketing. He started, husband and wife, he’s got a large team in four markets, they’re crushing it. He actually got seven deals in Dallas, I just heard that. I’m actually gonna interview him on my podcast.

Larry: Awesome.

Gary: So hopefully this helps. I’ll definitely give you the postcard and, yeah, if this seems like a fit, it’s something you guys need, go to, you know, check us out. Definitely tell us that Larry Goins sent you. We are invite only. It’s kind of a quick qualifier. We know if it’s like friends of mine and they’re in your coaching program, you know, or they’re super experienced, then we’d love to chat with you.

Larry: Right. That’s awesome, man. This is really good stuff. I really appreciate you sharing all this. Tremendous amount of information. I got a whole full page with stuff down the sides, on each side. It’s really, really good stuff, man. I appreciate it. And as long as I’ve been doing real estate, you know, I mean, these are notes not questions that I wanted to ask you or things I wanted to talk about in the interview but stuff I wanted to write down for me, right?

Gary: Yeah, I know. I know. I know, and I love being in the Mastermind with you, man. It’s really great to have people like you and Joe McCall and guys that we’re like-minded, right? We’re entrepreneurs, we’re growing businesses. We’re also family people and it’s really cool to be around us. There’s a lot of others, right? The rift out there, and so learned a lot from you and definitely – we’ll definitely take care of any of your people that come onboard REIvault, that’s for sure.

Larry: That’s great, man. Guys, you need to go to and they’ve got a little, I don’t know if you’d call it an application or just a little form to set up a demo, but you can let ’em know that I sent you so it’s a warm introduction, not just cold, and then that way, you know, one of Gary’s people will get on the phone with you and they’re all experienced people, I’ve known Gary for many, many years, and, you know, they’re the real deal. So, it’s a great way – it’s as close to done for you as you can get, right? Absolutely. Gary, buddy, I really appreciate you being on, this has been awesome. Thank you so much.

Gary: Yeah, brother. Great being with all of you. Have a great one.

Larry: Thanks a lot, man. I really appreciate it and, guys, please, if you enjoyed this, please share it, please leave us some comments, leave us some feedback and please share this. We really, really, really appreciate it, so thank you so much, everybody. Take care, everybody. Thanks a lot.