"Brain Pick a Pro" Interview with Realtor Isaac Mance


Larry: Welcome to the Wednesday night Brain Pick a Pro Teleconference live from Charlotte, North Carolina and also Charlotte, North Carolina. Our very special guest is a good friend of mine, is a Realtor, Business Owner, Real Estate Investor. In part of our Building your Dream Team Series, I wanted to make a special welcome to Isaac Mance of Business Track Realty. Welcome to the Program Isaac, how are you?

Isaac: I am doing very well. Appreciate your having me on Larry, I am looking forward to tonight; I think it is a great opportunity.

Larry: That is great. We are really glad to have you because I am telling you Issac, I get more calls from people saying, “how do you find the right Realtor? How do you find the right Attorney? How do you find the right Appraiser?” The good news is, we picked the Cream of the Crop of the people that I know and we bring them in here and we tell “what are you looking for?” I am going to ask you some tough questions tonight, so I know you are ready aren’t you?

Isaac: I’m going to fake some tough answers, I’m going to do the best I can for you.

Larry: I know you will. I appreciate having you on. Why don’t you start out and tell everybody a little about yourself.

Isaac: My name is Isaac Mance, as Larry said. I am with Business Track Realty. I have been a Real Estate Investor for a little over eleven years now. What we do, like you said, as a Realtor we are putting together deals. We are actually partnering with Clients now to develop strategy for them. So there are a lot of new things that are out there as an Investor, haven’t been looking as much because I have been concentrating more on the business, Which has been growing dramatically. So it has kept me out of the game a little bit; but I have definitely learned a lot about the game. From helping Clients and staying abreast of all the new trends that is going on, as you know changes hourly sometimes.

Larry: It does. You know what is amazing, and I think I have said this before, some people say. “I have twenty years experience in the business”. Unless you are learning and growing and getting new information all the time, you may have twenty years experience, but it is one year’s worth of experience repeated twenty times.

Isaac: My thing is, if you are not learning something daily, especially in the Real Estate Investor Business, you are missing something.

Larry: You are absolutely right.

Isaac: I think the key is always going to be to give yourself as much education as you can.

Larry: Absolutely.

Isaac: In this field you never can get enough, I learn from my clients daily. I learn from other experts. It is a continuing learning process for me.

Larry: Absolutely and you know what, Isaac, it always will be.

Isaac: That is what I keep getting told.

Larry: You know what, people in our position, Isaac, meaning that we deal with Investors on a daily basis. I deal with them in selling them houses and doing the Mortgage Loans for them and teaching and training and coaching and mentoring; and you sell people houses and you are helping them analyze the deals and helping them structure their portfolio and manage that portfolio of property. We have to stay up on this, because people have to depend on us.

Isaac: There is no question about that, I think that is the biggest thing that I have seen is once you gain a person’s trust, they really are dependent on you to stay up there. We have several clients that are going to do exactly what you say; and we have learned that we need to make sure that we are correct. Because we are guiding them with, in some cases their dreams, their dreams of early retirement, their dreams of a more positive cash flow. Some people are funding their kid’s college tuition, so you realize that there is a great responsibility coming with their trust and you have to earn it.

Larry: It takes a lot to earn that trust. But after you have been doing business with people for awhile and they see that you have their best interest in mind, then that is when you have the kind of relationship that you are looking for.

Isaac: I think someone said it best that if you do the right things and as far as even the financial interest, as far as all of that is concerned. If you do the right thing, the financials will follow.

Larry: Alright! We have a philosophy here in our Business that you put people and principals before profit and everybody profits.

Isaac: That is about the same as we have. We have learned a long time ago that the dollars are going to be there if your are doing the right things.

Larry: Right, when you are not looking at every deal as just a transaction to generate money and you are looking at it as a relationship, then you can truly put people and principals before profits. You can walk the talk.

Isaac: With us, we are far more related to buildings than transaction centers. Just in the way we do business.

Larry: Well, let’s get into it here. Let’s start out with the basics, okay?

Isaac: Okay.

Larry: Why would an Investor want to use a Realtor to buy properties?

Isaac: I think there are several reasons, Larry, that an Investor would want to use a Realtor.
One: We do have access obviously to the MLS (Multiple Listing Service) and several other different listings available. Probably the biggest thing for us is because we only work with Investors we have other Agents calling us daily, hourly, weekly sometimes to tell us a good deal is coming up. So while we can do all of the research and homework for our client, we are going to spend hours of evaluating properties and things of that nature. Instead of the client’s spending thirty/forty hours themselves doing it, let us do the work anyway.

Larry: Right, okay, because you are in the deal. You understand investment property. If you have the right Realtor, you are working with somebody that understands investment property and can guide you in the right direction and can let you know whether this is a deal or not.

Isaac: That is going to be your fee, with the Realtor, because we have access to so much information.

Larry: Right.

Isaac: We see so many different deals. We know what is going on in the neighborhoods. It is one of those to try and learn that information yourself would be a full time job. So we tell folks that we are going to do it anyway. We have a lot of clients who are still working full time jobs and they would not have time to spend an additional forty or even fifty hours a week sometimes doing the homework that we do for them.

Larry: Analyzing the deal.

Isaac: Analyzing the deal. So instead of spending the forty hours, they are spending maybe two. We are meeting their expectations.

Larry: You are doing the legwork for them.

Isaac: That really is what we are doing.

Larry: A Realtor is doing the legwork for them.

Isaac: Making sure it is done properly for them. The thing is, Larry, if you are having a Realtor, you want to make sure they are doing it for you, not just giving you a cookie cutter approach. You need to make sure that you challenge your Realtor to meet your needs. Larry, you know you investments needs are going to be different from mine, they are going to be different from a hundred other people.

Larry: Absolutely.

Isaac: You need to make sure that Realtor is meeting your needs and it eliminates a lot of the legwork that really happens for us. It makes a lot of the clients life a lot easier and just gives them the actual information, even the cash flow. We have access to tax information, things of that nature, that you can get but it might be difficult for you.

Larry: Absolutely. I have a lot of things that I want to ask you tonight, but you know I think this is a good question. Why don’t you tell me, as I am building my Dream Team and looking at a Realtor, what are some good questions, I as an Investor need to ask my Realtor?

Isaac: Dangerous question!

Larry: I told you I am going to put you on the spot.

Isaac: Maybe I should whisper it, just in case this is being taped. The first and foremost question I would say to always ask the Realtor, as you are building your Dream Team is: does that Realtor, as in our case, know investment. By that do they deal only with investments? We say why go to an generalist when you can come to a specialist.

Larry: That is strong.

Isaac: If they don’t do investments. Like for example, you will find a lot of Realtors that if you ask them what do they think about the house, they will say, “it is a cute house, the bedrooms go with the drapes, it is a nice house”.

Larry: We don’t care about that.

Isaac: When someone ask me, “what do I think about the house?” I am going to do the analysis.

Larry: It is all about the numbers.

Isaac: If the Living Room looks good, I put the numbers on the Living Room wall. That is how a good house looks good to me. The other thing that I would definitely ask a Realtor is: One, are they an Investor themselves? How many properties does that Realtor own themselves?

Larry: Oh, good question.

Issac: Because if they don’t own any properties, they cannot tell about what it is like to be an investor, if they are not one. That is the first thing you always say is: Do they own any properties or does anyone at your firm own properties? Are you guys doing this investment on the side or are you that serious and committed to your investment? That is one of the biggest things that we see. Also, we tell people to ask their Realtor, “provide me with a cash flow analysis.” Test them. Because if they don’t know what one is; then you need to go to a different Realtor. That is the biggest thing we see is, we have some Realtors that do it on the side or some Realtors that believe they can do it; but when they are really pressed about the numbers they have to defer. Because they don’t know the possibility, they don’t know the cash flow. They are just used to buying a house for you to move into and you have got to be very clear with them saying, “guys how many houses do you own? Are you an Investor or do you do this on the side or what is your specialty?” If they say we are good at finding a house for you to live in and if you are looking to buy a house to live in, they are the ones to be with. But if they are saying we do probability analysis, we partner with other folks, we speak with the planning officer. They need to know, as an Investor that they can meet your needs.

Larry: That is really good, that is good. You know I never thought to take it to that level. But even just as simple as every time you are on the phone with a Realtor, say I am an Investor, I was looking at this property as an Investor to buy, fix up and rent out. Tell me, do you work with many Investors?

Isaac: I would even take that a step further. I have our clients, again it builds with the trust, they truly ask the Realtor, “would you buy this as an Investment property, if so why?”

Larry: Wow! That is good!

Isaac: If not, tell me why. I think a Realtors responsibility would be to tell an Investor the best time to walk away from deals. We tell our client all the time. Sometimes you need to walk away, sometimes you need to run from this deal. That is the biggest question I would have them ask, is “as an Investor, tell me why this is good deal for me to buy, or tell me why this is not and we need to find something better”.

Larry: Exactly, that reminds me of Wendy Sweet, you know my partner here at Financial Help Services? It is not unusual for her, you know every day somebody calls about a deal and I hear her on the phone, “Well, why are you buying this deal? The numbers do not make sense. It doesn’t meet number one your goals you said you were going to do and number two there is no cash flow or there is not enough profit here for you to fix it up and sell it.”

Isaac: That is the key. Interesting with a lot of Realtors they are looking at it as; if I make the sale, I get a commission.

Larry: Yes, they are more interested in the transaction then the relationship.

Isaac: They if cannot explain it to you as an investor, so you should walk away. We kind of joke and say, “explain it to me as a Third Grader.” You should be able to walk away knowing completely why it is a good deal or why it is not and if the Realtor cannot do that for you they are not a true Investor. One of the best things I would always challenge the Realtor – is to make sure they know investments.

Larry: Absolutely. If they don’t, don’t put them on the spot, don’t embarrass them, don’t tell them you are not what I am looking for. Just tell them that you appreciate it, thanks a lot and I will give you a call the next time I see something else and then hang up and move on.

Isaac: Oh Yes. I don’t believe in embarrassing people. I think one: you never know when you might want to come back. You might want to buy a house for your primary residence and they might be a great asset to have. You cannot have too many assets in the community, but I think, while you do not embarrass them, you make sure that you are not also protecting yourself. The key is to, end this; but don’t burn the bridge because they might become a valuable resource. It is always just making sure they are coming off as exactly representing you as a client. That is going to be your biggest thing.

Larry: Exactly. Are there any other things that you can think of that we should ask.

Isaac: Definitely, the houses. How long have they been doing real estate investment? Have they been doing it for one year, have they been doing it for ten years? What kind of houses are they personally involved in? Because if they are doing rehabs or lease purchases, then they might be an expert. They can probably tell you some errors to avoid. What I always ask a Realtor, it is kind of a tongue in cheek question, but you always want to make sure, “have you made mistakes as an investor yourself?” Because if they say “no”, then they are not out there.

Larry: They have not been doing it enough have they?

Isaac: I have made enough mistakes myself that I can help my clients avoid.

Larry: The good news is that your clients are able to benefit from the mistakes you have learned from.

Isaac: Oh yes, I tell them all the mistakes. It takes a long time to go over some of my mistakes.

Larry: I hear you! But it is a learning experience.

Isaac: It is a learning experience, but some Realtor that has not made the mistakes are because they are not true Investors. It is a way of someone saying I am an Investor or if you have been in Real Estate you have all had that one deal like “Whoa”. That was good at the time, but now it is horrible.

Larry: Right, now that you are in it, exactly.

Isaac: The big thing is how many, how long you have been an Investor. Is it something you do on the side or is this your primary focus? I would even check with how well they are known at some of the Real Estate Investment Associates. Are they a member of REA? What do other Investors think of this?

Larry: That is always good too, to get another Investor referral, right?

Isaac: I would get another Investor referral. For us, we actually have Realtors that are clients.

Larry: Isn’t that great?

Isaac: We get them all the time; ask me how to do it.

Larry: That is funny, that is funny! Let me ask you a question. From your standpoint how do you know if you have a good deal or if the property is a good deal?

Isaac: I think the way you know it is a good deal. One, it is going to start with a person’s investment strategy. Again, your strategy is going to differ dramatically from mine or anyone else’s. The key, the first thing you have got to do is if you are looking to stay under $50,000, and that is your ceiling, make sure you stay under it. Because $55,000, is still above $50,000. If a Realtor is saying I can get you a good deal under $50,000, it should not be $50,000. What we do is, literally, we are going to run the analysis, the cash flow analysis. We are looking at how much it is going to cost as your down payment. Another big thing that a lot of Investors don’t take into account is; if you are going to hold a property, what your tax table is going to be. Even without renting it, some people are getting $2,000 back per house from taxes. That would be a big thing for a lot people. We are also going to look at can this house rent? What is the rent ability? What is going to be about my profit rent versus mortgage? What is going to be my annual profit? So the first thing we are going to do to look at it is run the numbers, Numbers, Numbers. The next thing you are got to do, numbers can lie, you got to go out and physically look at the house. It is in a good area?

Larry: Yes, the due diligence.

Isaac: It is the due diligence and it is riding around saying, “huh, are there a lot of for sale signs in this neighborhood? Are there a lot of for rent signs in this neighborhood?”

Larry: Lot of boarded up houses?

Isaac: Are there boarded up houses? Are there cars on blocks? Would a family feel safe renting this house or are you thinking of doing a lease/purchase of this house? If I am fixing it up, is it going to really cost me $2,000 to fix it up or now that I look at it with the inspection is it going to cost me $15,000? What we do, is we are looking at say the cost of your house is $60,000, well if your repairs are going to be $20,000 then the true cost is $80,000.

Larry: Right, that is just your hard cost.

Isaac: Yes, that is just your hard cost.

Larry: Not to mention your carrying cost, interest, taxes, closing cost, all that stuff.

Isaac: That is what you have got to factor in to determine if it is a good deal or not. I think, as one of your pieces stated, you need to make sure your are taking the emotion out of it. You have a lot of people who are feeling that this is a good deal, I like this neighborhood; but these numbers don’t quite work but it is still a good deal. If the numbers don’t work, it is a real easy one to walk away from. I think you really got to run your numbers and do due diligence. Go by the house and what we do, why we work with Realtors, is see what the other houses selling for in the neighborhood. Have been going down over the last six month? Have they been going up? Are they all about the same? Are they building new stuff in the neighborhood? Are you going to have to worry about if your house is older, are you going to have to worry about some of the newer houses; because they would want to rent or buy those first.

Larry: That is a good point, very good point.

Isaac: It is a lot of gut feelings when riding in the neighborhood. You do not want to have the oldest house, the only house that is not new in the neighborhood.

Larry: You have got to do a lot of due diligence.

Isaac: Got to do the due diligence before you say this is a good deal or not.

Larry: Wow! What do you think some other important aspects are of investment?

Isaac: I think your important aspects of investments, once you get your numbers, is to get your strategies and to make sure that you are at least aware of all the different options you might have.

Larry: Whether you are going to rent it or fix it up and sell it or wholesale it, is that what you mean?

Isaac: That to, whether you are going to rent it, whether you are going to fix it up and sell it, whether you are going to wholesale it; but know what are you goal say for two months, what is your goals for six months, what is your goals for a year, what is your goals for five years?

Larry: Short and long term goals.

Isaac: Short and long term, but also is if you are looking to buy and hold or fix it up, what is available to you? Have you considered buying houses that are already tenant occupied? Have you considered buying house from construction and renting them back to builder? Making sure you have all your options out there. We have found a lot of people just don’t know. They did not know you could buy a house from construction and rent it back to the builder for eighteen (18) months.

Larry: Yes, a builder lease back.

Isaac: A lot of people do not know about those. The key is making sure that you have, as we say, all your bullets lined up so that when you are armed and ready to go out there your strategies are going to better. The key, we always say, is stay on your strategies. If you strategies are under $100,000, don’t go up to $120,000. Even if you may think it is a good deal.

Larry: Exactly. Stay with your goals.

Isaac: Stay with your goals, your goals can change. Set down and plan the goals, but if you go outside your goals then you start going from $110,000 to $120,000 and suddenly you are over your head.

Larry: Right.

Isaac: That is when you see people get into trouble. Those are definitely the big things, you don’t want to get over your head.

Larry: That is some good information.

Isaac: Sometimes taking it slow is okay. You don’t have to be like everyone, you are always hearing people saying that they are buying 20 or 30 houses a year. They do not tell you about how many times they messed up on those.

Larry: Really. That is true. Hey listen, I still make some mistakes every once in awhile, but I see it as a learning experience.

Isaac: Oh, it truly is; but you have got to crawl before you can walk or run.

Larry: You are exactly right. You mentioned a little bit about the builder sell lease back. Can you elaborate on that a little bit so people that are hearing this call, they may not understand that, you can kind of elaborate on that.

Isaac: The builder sell lease back is, what we do is we will contact some builders and you can actually purchase the model home from the builder; and then they will lease the model back from you. They are going to use it as a model and give you an 18 month, usually, rental contract, usually for 1%. So if you buy the house for $100,000, they are going to rent it back for $1,000.

Larry: Oh okay, which is pretty typical as far as rent goes as a general rule, right?

Isaac: Right, we use .9% where I am, but at 1% it is still typical rent. What you are gaining is, one with a model home, you are always going to have a few extras built in the model. Two, you know they are going to take care of it because it is their show home; and the most importantly, is usually, as houses in a subdivision start selling off and coming towards the end, usually they are going up in price. Usually your re-sell value will be a little bit better if you chose to sell it after eighteen months; because of the rest of the homes that have been sold in that neighborhood. So you have some extra features, it has been sold, and often the builders will come in and re-do the carpet so you have a completely new house, eighteen months of cash flow, plus taxes and it is a guaranteed tenant. You know the builder is not going anywhere; because they need to get that house off of their books. So it is a guaranteed program, usually like I said for eighteen months. Usually you can buy it below what you would be selling it for, based on the neighborhood/subdivision going up.

Larry: Right. They are continuing to build and with inflation and the prices going up you are buying at today prices.

Isaac: Correct, but selling it at two years from now prices.

Larry: Right, as long as you are not worrying about competing against the builder and he will be out of the subdivision in two years.

Isaac: Right, but even if the builder will be out of the subdivision in two years and all the houses are sold then you will still have a good market; because if assuming it is a credible builder and the houses were built in good quality, you are still coming in cheaper so you could put yours on the retail market and still make a sum of money. It is a safer investments, also do not have to worry about any repairs. That is probably the biggest single risk. As far as the safety investment – no repairs, guaranteed tenant from day one. You know they are going to keep it in incredible condition because it is their show home. So it eliminates all those problems, you know something being broke, you know that will never happen there.

Larry: Be nice if you could keep the furniture, wouldn’t it?

Isaac: Sometimes we have done it.

Larry: Do what?

Isaac: Sometimes we have done it. Put it right in the contract that when you purchase the house all of it. Literally I have a piece of art in my house that I say contemporary artwork in living room from model to remain with house. When you buy that, you can buy all the furniture in the model home, it is just making sure you ask for it. Most people do not know to ask for it. You can ask for anything you want in the home and usually they will give it to you.

Larry: When you have the right Realtor they know.

Isaac: Oh yes, we ask for everything. I have been known to ask for books on the shelf. I had a deal where the person that owned the house was an Interior Decorator. We actually asked for the Dining Room cabinet, the Dining Room table, the entertainment center downstairs, the couch and we ended up getting it all for $1,500. Which is an incredible deal. I was told that I had to go and check, my knowledge of how much a Dining Room cabinet would cost was about zero; but I was told that for this kind it would be about $1,000 just for the Dining Room cabinet – China cabinet. Then another $900 or $1,000 for the table. Because we asked for it, we ask that it remain at monetary value. We have bought model homes, we said we want everything to say. We want the books on the shelf, we have even got a couple of beds.

Larry: That is funny.

Isaac: Get it fully furnished and makes it even easier to sell.

Larry: Based on what you are telling me, it sounds like, and I know this personally; but you are working for the buyer not the seller. Can you take a little bit of time, Isaac, and explain the difference between a Buyer’s Agent, a Seller’s Agent and Dual Agency. I think that is very important.

Isaac: Sure. A Buyer’s Agent is one just like it says, you are representing the Buyer. A Seller’s Agent, you are representing the Seller and a Dual Agent is representing both. Where because it is extremely important is whose interest do you have at heart? If I am a Buyer’s Agent and we only work with Buyer’s, I am going to make sure my Buyer gets the best deal. If I have to put in a ridiculous offer, I am okay with that. If I have to get my Buyer out of a contract because of an inspection, that is what we do. Because again I need to make sure that my Buyer at the end of the day gets the best deal. If I am Seller’s Agent, it is the opposite. I need to try and sell the house for as much as we can. Hopefully, we will get it financed and get rid of the house. I don’t low ball offers, I don’t want them to be able to get out of the contract for inspection. I want the house to be sold. That is one of the things we emphasize is that if you have an investor, make sure they are representing you. Because as we told someone, it is almost impossible to serve two masters.

Larry: It is impossible.

Isaac: It really is. I cannot adequately represent the Buyer and represent the Seller at the same time. Because then I cannot give them the information they need. I have told Buyers several times, guys this house came in a little too high, they did not wire the bedroom properly. We can use that to get even more money off of it. Now we know that actually their list price is right at market value; but I think that will come in at least $15,000 under. or at least $25,000 under, based on this information. My job is to make sure the Buyer gets the best deal. If you are a Seller that is their job and you want them negotiating on your behalf. You want someone to go to the Seller and say, “look we all know what it is worth, but this is what we can get.”

Larry: If a person is working as a dual agent, meaning they are working for the Seller, they listed the property and they are the one working with the Buyer as dual Agent, then it is really like don’t ask, don’t tell. If the Buyer makes an offer, they are asking $100,000, the Buyer offers $70,000. The Seller says, “I won’t take $70,000 but I will take $80,000. You cannot go back to the Buyer and say that because they have a Fiduciary Responsibility to the Seller and as the Buyer’s Agent they have a Fiduciary Responsibility to the Buyer.

Isaac: What actually happens is that both the Buyer and the Seller get left out in the cold.

Larry: Right, they get no information.

Isaac: They get zero. Your are obligated to say, “Well I cannot tell you what the Buyer is thinking, I cannot tell you what the Seller is thinking. All I can do is give you what they told me to tell you”. That is doing both of them a disservice, because you cannot set down; and if they would ask a question, which the Buyer would, “well what would be a good range to buy this? What do you think?” Put in an offer for it, they would legally have to say I’m representing the Seller, I cannot even tell you what you should bid on it. That is where, I think, you have got to be able to help the Buyer out and say, “Look here is a good range, based on what is going on in the neighborhood, based on what we have seen, here is the market value, here is what I would put in as an offer.” Now they might chose to take your advice, but you are at least put it out there. If you are a dual agent, their saying, “I’m not going to tell you what to put in as an offer and I cannot tell you why or what is going on in the neighborhood because then I would not be representing the seller properly”. I’m just going to take you money and take your paperwork, turn it in and then come back to you and you end up losing.

Larry: Yes, and that does not help you any.

Isaac: No.

Larry: You need someone in your corner.

Isaac: You really do, because like I said, “you don’t want someone who is serving two masters”. It is either you are working with me or you are working with someone else.

Larry: Tell me, what is the best deal you ever found for a client?

Isaac: The best deal we have ever found for a client.

Larry: I am going to put you on the spot.

Isaac: Again, I want to make sure this is not taped. I can say actually two that I can think of. We found one where, it was a foreclosure and we bought it probably for around $250,000. I think it ended up needing probably about $5,000 worth of repairs. They ended up doing some landscaping, actually $10,000 – $15,000 landscaping, and turned it into a Southern Estate. It is now appraising at around $415,000.

Larry: Wow! That is sweet. They bought it at $250,000, you said.

Isaac: They bought it for $250,000, put about $5,000 to $10,000 in repairs. Did major work on the outside, had it painted and landscaped and that was about $15,000.

Larry: They had about $270,000 in it?

Isaac: About $270,000 to $275,000. It is appraising at $415,000.

Larry: Wow! That is pretty sweet.

Isaac: Now the problem is, they want me to find another one like that.

Larry: You know I have run into that same problem when we were wholesaling houses to some people. We were giving such a good deal they were not taking the deals that were, you know, 70% of appraised value. We got them in a couple at 50% and 55%.

Isaac: We had a few, we found someone a tenant occupied house where again you are getting the instant cash flow, but we ended up getting them about 25% in equity with zero repair cost.

Larry: Wow!

Isaac: It was in incredible condition. They now want all tenant occupied houses, which is usually less equity. They want all tenant occupied houses with at least 25% to 30% equity and no repair cost. I am thinking, we would love to pull that off for you.

Larry: That would be nice wouldn’t it?

Isaac: They blame me for spoiling them.

Larry: Yes, they blame you. That is funny.

Isaac: Those are probably our best. Actually we found a house in University area in Charlotte where he paid $91,000. We showed them how to re-finance it and his mortgage is right around $500/$550 but it is renting at $1,000.

Larry: That is sweet. They have a $450 a month cash flow.

Isaac: The comps came in at $135,000. So with a $450 cash flow plus about $40,000 and some change in equity.

Larry: That is sweet. That is really good. Are there any dollar figures you use to guide you in looking for deals?

Isaac: What we often do is, we don’t want to go above really $115,000 because we found renting that, or I guess lease/purchases, renting that is a little bit harder. Once you get into the $150,000 to $200,000 house those are difficult to rent.

Larry: Because you cannot get the 1% rule or whatever, right?

Isaac: Right. Usually if people are going to pay $1,500 to $2,000 in rent, they are going to buy a house. Especially here in Charlotte. What will happen is occasionally, I won’t say we have never done it, because we actually helped rent a house for $1,800 dollars a month. But that was the exception. I think we generally look, we want to keep it under $115,000. Generally, if we are looking at houses that we are going to fix up, we try to keep those even under $75,000. Just because once you put in the repair costs it starts getting too close to the $100,000 and $150,000. So we often start with that, we don’t go above $115,000 and if it is going to be repair we kind of look around $75,000 because we don’t want them to spend more than $70,000 really on a house before the repair cost.

Larry: Right.

Isaac: Now say we had a deal where it was $75,000 was the asking price and there was about $30,000 in repairs but he ended up selling it for $125,000.

Larry: So he came out okay?

Isaac: He came out okay because he ended up with the total cost of $100,000 but he sold it for $125,000. Usually if it is under $115,000, I usually use that as kind of the dollar figure; and if it is under $70,000 if they are looking to fix things up. Just as kind of a good rule of thumb.

Larry: That is some good information. You know what I have found too, Isaac, is and I am not sure if you found this same thing, but the higher the price of the house, not only the rent, you cannot get the amount of rent you need, but the higher the price of the house the harder it is to get as good a margin on your percentage of investment to value. Do you find that true?

Isaac: I find it usually true. I think for us we lose a percentage once we get over $115,000. If we have clients that are looking for say over $500,000 it is a harder look because we are looking for those percentages. We still want the 30% or we still the 40%, it is just a lot more difficult to find because your 30% is now $60,000; $70,000; $80,000; $100,000 versus your 30% being $30,000. It is a mental block of people saying, “huh, I am going to lose $100,000 on this house”. It makes it more difficult to find them. Usually as you go up just because you are buying a $300,000 house and you do have that spread, you are excluding a lot of buyers on the retail market that can afford that type of house.

Larry: That is a good point. Absolutely, because you want your bread and butter houses. A house that more people out there can afford to buy.

Isaac: The more people that look, the more traffic you get, then everyone can get in and it makes everybody happier.

Larry: Absolutely, you widen your market as to how many people can afford your house.

Isaac: That is always a key point.

Larry: That is a good point. Now you are out there in the market place and I know we are in Charlotte here, but do you see a high percentage of the deals out there that Investors are buying are bank owned properties?

Isaac: We work primarily about 95% of what we do are foreclosures. A lot of people have a myth about a foreclosure being a bad house. Or even a HUD Home or a government owned home.

Larry: I was going to ask you about that too.

Isaac: We have seen HUD Homes in awful conditions, but we have also seen HUD Homes in move in condition. What a lot of people don’t know for example with HUD, is HUD just changed their vendor in North Carolina and South Carolina.

Larry: Yes, it used to be MCB REO, and they changed didn’t they?

Isaac: They changed to HMB, I think it is HMB REO.

Larry: Right, now wasn’t their website down for quite a while?

Isaac: Their website is still not up to date, as it should be. We actually spoke with the people there. I think what happened is they did not realize how big of a chore it was and they are over their head.

Larry: Taking it on. Right.

Isaac: But what is happening now, HUD will go in and fix up to about $5,000 on a HUD Home.

Larry: Is that right?

Isaac: They are going to put in new carpeting and new pad, whether you ask for it or not. A lot of people do not realize most HUD Homes now are going to be in almost move in condition.

Larry: Tell us about this since we are talking about HUD houses. You know I had this idea that when you are buying a HUD house they are only going to come off the asking price about 5% or 10% until they make another price reduction. Can you tell us some insider’s secrets of how that works?

Isaac: We had actually studied the prices before they made a change and even after they made a change. Before they made the change, HUD properties were traditionally priced below market value.

Larry: How much below?

Isaac: We found in some cases around 10% was what they were priced below.

Larry: Okay, so it is not a bad starting point?

Isaac: HUD bases their acceptance on the net to HUD. They are actually going to take out all the closing costs and all the commissions, they are looking at how much money they walk away with from the table. We have traditionally seen what they were expecting for some of the better properties was between 10% to 12% below the asking price as the net to HUD. That was what we found from studying several of the ones that were sold for several months. Since they have changed companies, it has actually been a little bit different. The new company is actually listing them at market value. So you are not getting that much equity; however, we are seeing HUD accept them for as much as 20% to 25% below what they are asking.

Larry: Are you serious?

Isaac: We saw one the other day that was 23% of the net to HUD below what they were asking.

Larry: Wow! That is pretty strong.

Isaac: That was very strong. But what it tells folks is, as an Investor, don’t be afraid to make ridiculous offers to HUD.

Larry: Well you know the other thing is jump in there while they still do not know what they are doing.

Isaac: That is what we are doing. I am amazed that HUD still fixes up the houses. They did not do it before. That is a great savings to any house that needs cosmetic repairs, knowing that HUD is going to take care of it. Also HUD is doing inspections now.

Larry: They are?

Isaac: On some of the properties. So again, you are saving your cost of about $200 to $250 for an inspection. So let HUD do all of this stuff, cause if you ask for it to be included in your closing cost, HUD is only going to pay certain items on items on the Closing Costs. Generally it comes out to around $1,200. Now HUD will say they will pay up to 5%. What most people do not realize is that HUD will pay say up to $5,000 using the 5% on a $100,000 property. While they say they will pay it you can only use it on certain items. Those certain items are only going to total $1,200. So you are weakening yourself by asking for them to pay $5,000. Because then you could have made your offer stronger without going so high on the price.

Larry: That is a really good point because it is all about net to them.

Isaac: Net to them, but if your net is, say they are going to accept $80,000 but you have $5,000 of closing costs then your price is going to be $85,000. But if you have $81,000, then your price is going to be a little bit lower. The key is making sure you know exactly what HUD will pay for and don’t ask for more. We try not to leave more than $100.00 on the table.

Larry: After you have been doing it for awhile, you know what they will and what they will not pay for, right?

Isaac: We know exactly what they will. We have actually talked to the people at HUD, I have actually been down to their office here in Charlotte. Go in and talk to them, find out what is going on with the website, that is how we found out they are actually doing repairs. Where they are going in with the $5,000. That is HUD’s limit is literally up to $5,000. That is what they are saying. As far as cosmetic repairs that they are willing to do up to $5,000. A lot of people are still asking for that in Closing Costs and stuff like that. You have a lot of people that are looking at the house and HUD is still in the process of repairing some of the houses. If they are on the website, right now they may or may not be finished because HUD is behind; but they are finished by closing. People have made miscalculations thinking I need to adjust for my repair costs, you pricing is too high.

Larry: Let me ask you this question. If the website, I am assuming this is a National Vendor, like MCB REO used to be where it is the same website all across the country. Let me ask you this question. If the website is not current is there a way to find out about the properties without having to go through the website? Are you able to go through the website?

Isaac: Unfortunately, there is not. We are actually trying to have our clients purchase houses that are not on the website and they are not making them available to the public. Apparently they are back logged so much that there are several homes that they have not even made available to the public yet. We are thinking that they are going to dramatically either reduce the prices or they are going to have to do something to get rid of the inventory. It is going to be a buying season, we are thinking, very soon. Because the government cannot continue to lose money like they are now.

Larry: Absolutley, you are exactly right. What about other government, like VA or Fannie Mae, or what is the other one? It is Homestep?

Isaac: Fannie Mae is actually interesting, they changed in the opposite direction of HUD. Fannie Mae is now not repairing any of the cosmetic things. They used to do the carpet and painting; but Fannie Mae has decided that we are not going to do that; and they are not coming down on prices as much. What we have seen lately is that Fannie Mae, we think Fannie Mae has decided that they have to meet their budget numbers a lot better. They are being more of a stickler to we are not going to sell it until we get what we want. Their houses are setting a little bit longer and people have to know that they are not going to be in “move-in condition” when they move in.

Larry: I think it is also important to note here that the majority of the bank owned properties, not HUD, not Fannie Mae or VA, the bank owned properties. Those Asset Managers, that you deal with when they are selling those properties, as a general rule the Asset Manager does not get paid for the net amount to the bank. They get paid for getting that file off of their desk.

Isaac: That is it.

Larry: So that is the reason that you have a lot better chance of negotiating with them, I should not say better; but they will negotiate with you. In fact, I think I have mentioned this before. I know I have mentioned this before, I don’t about on a call like this or not. But if any time I am working a Realtor on a bank owned property I will always ask that Realtor to ask the Bank if they own anymore properties in this area and if they will consider a bulk sale. Sometimes they many have four other ones in that city; and if you will buy all four of them they will give you a much better price just to get five files off their desk or four files off their desk at one time.

Isaac: That is a great point Larry. Buying in bulk is the same as going to the grocery store, like going to Sam’s Club. Literally, a lot of banks will do that just because, again, what we tell folks is for example; with the Bank of America they are not in the Real Estate business. They do not want to have any house.

Larry: None of them are.

Isaac: The more they can get rid of, the more they are off of their books. Their Managers are evaluated by the number or houses that have not been sold. If you can put a deal where you are getting multiple houses, they are going to come down significantly and we have seen that before as well.

Larry: Exactly, that makes good sense. Let me ask you this question. Sometimes we go into neighborhoods and we see two, three or four vacant houses, maybe they are nice neighborhoods, maybe they are older neighborhoods, but if you can tell a neighborhood has had several foreclosures or quite a few, what do you think about that kind of area as far as an investment opportunity?

Isaac: That is actually a good question. That actually varies from neighborhood to neighborhood. Some foreclosures because the neighborhood itself is going down, there is a mass exodus and people are just leaving the neighborhood as quick as they can. What we are seeing other places is, if ;you think about really two years ago, when the economy was a lot better a lot of people were put into houses they were kind of marginal. They could not really afford to be there, so now that the economy is turned down, they are being forced out of nice houses. What we are looking at as Investor’s is a great time to buy it. You might have to wait two to three years to hold it; but you are getting a house that would normally cost you say $100,000/$110,000, you are getting it for $80.000 and knowing that in three years the whole neighborhood will rebound. What is happening unfortunately in those three years you have people that unfortunately they are being forced out, but it is still a good neighborhood. We actually look at those and on several of them we tell Investors that yes this is a foreclosure, yes your property value might decrease over the next six months to a year; but if you are going to hold it for two years you can definitely make a great profit. The other thing is, you can get a great cash flow because it is easier to rent a say 1500 square foot house for $800.00. If you are buying it for $80,000, you can make that very profitable. It becomes one of those I can now get a bigger house for less money in a good neighborhood that is easy to rent.

Larry: Absolutely and that is the whole key. As you buy more and grow and start doing more, you want to start upgrading. I am not saying you have to start with houses, you know $100,000+, but as you grow and do more, you are going to start selling off the ones at the lower end and keeping the higher end ones.

Isaac: Because they are going to be more profitable to you.

Larry: Not only more profitable but they are easier to manage. One thing I learned a good while back is the you cannot get good people in bad houses or bad neighborhoods.

Isaac: That is generally true. With the Foreclosures in great neighborhoods, I know subdivision were at least 75% of the sales in the last year has been foreclosures. What we are thinking is, it is probably not a coincidence they were all done by the same Lender.

Larry: You know there has been a lot of Mortgage fraud in the past few years. In fact, there has been several articles in the Charlotte Observer about it and there has been Investors and Attorneys, Appraisers that are involved in some of this stuff. They are fluffing up the values and they are buying them, selling them to Investors, promising to rent them out, over financing them and they end up with zero cash flow and a vacant house. The Investors was a “newbie” meaning a new Investor relying on somebody else and they ended up losing the house because they could not keep making the payments on it.

Isaac: We have seen that several times.

Larry: That is very sad and I want to just take a minute just to say that Real Estate Investing it is not easy, if it was easy everybody would do it. It is a learned skill, it is just like learning any other trade or business or career out there; but if somebody promises to do it all for you and all you have to do is set back and collect the check, you need to do a little bit of investigating. I am not saying that people that do that are wrong. Even sometimes we sell properties put a tenant in for somebody and I know you are working with some of your Investors as well. If somebody promises that all you have to do, all I need is your good credit, and we are going to do everything else. You had better do your own due diligence. Do your own due diligence anyway, no matter who you use.

I: I would say not only do your own due diligence, but it is even a questionable deal or you feel a little bit uneasy about it, take it to another expert.

Larry: Somebody outside the transaction.

Isaac: There you go. We evaluate deals for client that have nothing to do with us.

Larry: Right.

Isaac: We are like, yes this is an incredible deal you need to accept it. Or take it to an Attorney that you know. Make sure someone else sees that deal that you trust, because sometimes, it is the simplest thing that you might overlook. But that person who is checking it catches and says, “you need to run from this one, I have seen this happen before.”

Larry: Since we are talking about that. What do you think is the biggest mistake a Realtor can make?

Isaac: The biggest mistake a Realtor can make is: One, letting people get so caught up in the idea of buying Real Estate. You see the commercials that I made $30,000 overnight and that is a rare exception. When you are dealing with people’s dreams they can buy into their own dreams. I want to buy twenty houses a month, or if a Real Estate Agent lets them do that then suddenly two months down the road they are suddenly way over their head and that is the most important mistake that we can do is sometimes we have to have kind of pull back and say, “Hey guys, let’s make sure we on point, let’s make sure we have your goals in sight. We cannot let them get too excited. The other thing, I think the biggest mistake Realtors can make is we do not do our homework. Sometimes, you know, it is Friday at 5:00 pm and we don’t feel like checking out the property, checking out the comps. We are taking someone else’s value of it. The other Realtor that called us said it was worth $100,000, we are taking their word for it. What I would always ask is, if a Realtor tells you it is $100,000, have them to actually show you the work they did.

Larry: Yes, let me see the Comps.

Isaac: Let me see the Comps, let me see your neighborhood, let me see your evaluation, what did you base it on?
So that is our biggest mistake, is being lazy. Taking other peoples word, the shortcuts comes to bite you.

Larry: They will, won’t they?

Isaac: I have seen it done so many times. The shortcuts where I took someone else’s word, or the biggest thing is we have seen if it is a tenant occupied home, we can get a copy of that lease.

Larry: Yes.

Isaac: It could be tenant occupied today, but the lease is scheduled to end March 1.

Larry: Plus, you want to know if they are current on the payments.

Isaac: You want to if they are current, you want to get a full copy, you want to know if that tenant intends to stay. If the tenant is going to move, you are not going to be buying a tenant occupied house. If they are going to move in thirty days.

Larry: You are going to have to go in and paint and carpet automatic.

Isaac: Exactly. I have seen Realtors not verify the contract. If they tell me it is Section 8 tenant, we call Section 8 and make sure. How are they paying. We have seen several where we told the principal we are going to go call them, the Section 8 Office, and they tell us there is no need to. If they tell me that, I say “Good.”

Larry: That is exactly why we are calling.

Isaac: No need for us to be doing a deal. I think it is the not doing the homework, the trusting people, it is as you said, it is a job. You need a Realtor that is going to be putting in the time and effort to do it.

Larry: Let me ask you this. What do you think about multiple family, I know we have talked mostly about single family. What do you think the advantages or disadvantages of multi family?

Isaac: I think you have several or a lot of people are being to swing toward duplexes and quads and even apartment complexes. There are advantages and disadvantages. One the big advantages is you are buying in bulk. So you might be getting twenty or thirty units, but the other problem is, if they are not in a good area and all twenty are vacant, then you are really hurting. I think it is more due diligence on your cash flow analysis. The bigger the deal gets, the more you need to see the overall picture, I want to see all the accounting, I want to know their vacant rate for the last two years. Were they hard to rent these duplexes? What is happening is if you have one house that is vacant your can sometimes work around that; but if you have a quad that is vacant it might reasons that all four of them are vacant. You can get hurt harder quicker. Is this now in a bad area or is something with the environment that makes this one bad? We had a client that was working on an apartment complex where they said they were going to cash flow right around $150,000 to $200,000 on a million dollar investment, cash flow $150,000 a year. We analyzed it. Had the people send all the Financial Statements, we wanted a two year rental history, we wanted to know what was the vacancy rate. It turned out the $150,000 they were making was without debt coverage. I said well if you get a loan for the apartment complex you are really only making $50,000.

Larry: Or less.

Isaac: Or less. I said off of a million dollar investment, that is not a good return.

Larry: No it is not at all.

Isaac: That I think is the biggest disadvantage of them is you need to do more homework. When you get past single families you need to do more financial homework. I want at least two years, for everything past a single family. Plus their rental history. The down side would be, in a duplex say, for example. Say a tree falls on you, now you have two units that are now vacant versus one. The other advantage, is you have two, you can usually get the duplexes cheaper so therefore your total rent for the building will give you a better cash flow for your total investment. You can get a better cash flow, if you do your homework, on duplexes and quads, but it just more homework that you need to do.

Larry: That is strong, that is good. I like that. That is some good information. I like the cash flow of a duplex, a tri or a quad, a lot of people know you can count it is as a single family resident for financing purposes anything up to four units. One to four units, your standard loans apply. Once you go over four and five units and up, then you start getting into commercial loans and commercial rates and programs and qualifying and that sort of thing.

Isaac: That is where it gets a lot more difficult.

Larry: Right, that is something else to keep in mind. Then the Lender is going to look at you and your experience, just as hard as they are you and your credit income.

Isaac: I think experience is the key. Once you are getting into the duplexes and quads you need to be an experienced or have a good Property Manager. Again, you do not want to have four units that are vacant instead of one.

Larry: Absolutely. Isaac, would you take a few minutes and tell us a little bit about your business and how you operate. I know you guys have just a phenomenal business and are doing really well. We are set up beside you at the Vendor table, as a Vendor, every month at Metrolina REA and I just see people crowding around your table and talking about buying one, two, three a month from you. Tell us a little bit about your business. Business Track Realty and if you don’t mind, would you give out your contact information to for people?

Isaac: Sure, let me start it off with Business Track Realty, out phone number is: 704-331-9940 or you can go on the web and we are at: www.businesstrackrealty.com. What we do is, we actually are building a partnership with our clients, where we are going to manage an entire Realty investment portfolio. In developing that strategy, yes that might be one house a week, one house a month, one house a year, we make sure that strategy developed. Then we are going to set down and say, Okay, let’s figure the best way to finance it before we go find the property. Finding the property is actually the easy part. We want to make sure that we are setting down and saying here is some new investment strategies that you never thought of. We have some people that have thought about buying a house in the skiing mountains instead of the beach house. One guy is renting a house for about $3,000 a week and no one else had thought about buying a house in Aspen, CO. It is jut something they had never thought of; but there a lot of people that will pay to be on the slopes. The biggest thing that we are doing is one, we are going to make sure that we represent the buyer. Only represent buyers, but our goal is to take them from a baby step and educate them as an Investor. I feel that if I educate clients, I am not worried about them leaving. I am not worried not knowing. I want them to know how to evaluate. That is what we do, we are going through the profitability analysis, the cash flow analysis. We probably evaluate 500 deals a week, of which we recommend only 10%.

Larry: If you don’t mind, I would like to jump in here right quick. What I thought was the most impressive thing about your website and you have just a very professional, very extensive website. I love that website, but do you know what I think is the most important thing about your website? Is the fact that because you were a Buyer’s Agent and working inclusively with Investors, you don’t put every listing that is in the MLS on your website. You go through and analyze the deal and you look at it and you run the numbers, you do the cash flow projections and all of that. Then only the ones that meet your criteria at a starting point, will you put on your website.

Isaac: We literally start with about 20% in equity and that is based on the tax value. Like you said, that is a starting point for us. We have clients that will say, “Isaac, I want to see house number 1913, let’s go deeper into that”. We will pull up market comps, sometimes the market value is higher than the tax value, sometimes it is lower; but it is a good starting point. Again, because we are so numbers driven in our business, we want to give the client a brief photo of what the cash flow will be if you own this house. That is critical, I don’t think I say that enough, being critical that a Realtor should give you a cash flow; and make sure we know you are set, make sure we are setting down with you on the strategy and help explain how it evolves over time. Make you a more experienced Investor. Our goal at Business Track is: one, to educate our clients, we assume our clients do not know anything when they come in. We love for them to prove us wrong, which they often do. Our job is really to make sure that they stay on top of the latest trend; because we are talking to them about it. We are making sure they are not overpaying HUD. Or what is HUD paying? What is a good offer? I think the difference between us and other firms is sometimes you will say, “What is a good offer?” and they will not tell you. We want to give our clients this is exactly what we feel is a good offer, based on this experience and that is I think what we literally want to do is set down with our clients and say, “Guys going over everything we have, this is a good deal, this is what you should offer. Let’s us hold your hand if necessary, to walk you through the deals”. As people get more experienced they have some of that call and say, “Hey, Isaac, I saw this property, what do you think about it?” and we tell them. We are not afraid to give our opinion and usually we are right, but we are going to back it up. I think that is the big difference with Business Track is every agent there is an Investor. It is not something we do on the side.

Larry: That is great, I like the fact of that. It is kind of like here at our office in our Mortgage Company, pretty much everybody at office is a Real Estate Investor too.

Isaac: Our feel is that you cannot talk about what you don’t know.

Larry: Yes, that is a good point.

Isaac: Unless I am in the trenches with you, I cannot talk about it.

Larry: You walk the walk!

Isaac: That is what we require from all of them. It is literally, we are going to do the cash flow analysis, we are partnering with the client. It is, as you said earlier, it is a relationship, versus buying one house, buying two houses. Let’s have a good relationship. Let me set down and say, “Guys, this is not a good deal”. We have more clients we have turned away from deals that people are amazed of.

Larry: That is a good thing, you are building that long term relationship.

Isaac: The great thing with us, I would say about 90% to 95% of our clients have come back to us to buy a second house. Most of our clients actually buy a second house or “look to” buy a second house within an hour of closing. We kind of laugh, but they always say we just closed on this one but I was on your website on the way up here. Can we go look at another one? Again, I think it is the partnership that we are building. They have gotten to the point where they trust us.

Larry: That is the key and everybody needs to be looking for that type of partnership.

Isaac: My theory is, and as your were talking about building a great team, everyone on your team you should trust. Because we know that they trust us, makes us work harder, because it kind of one of those if trust me, I am obligated to you. I know I have your trust, I am going to make sure the you one: will not lose money first and foremost, two: after closing, someone will be there. Questions come up the next day and three: we have your investment strategy what are your goals – one year, six months, one week? That is going to be the most important things that we can come up with.

Larry: Can you tell us a little bit about this Real Estate Investment Summit that you have coming up in February? The reason behind that.

Isaac: The reason behind it was, we have had so many people coming up and asking us questions that we had to call and get expert opinions on, that we decided how many other people want to know these experts opinions? So what we are doing is, we are going to have the top Attorneys, the top Accountants, the top Lenders, you and Wendy are definitely going to be there, to set down and answer questions. It is going to be – these people are going to give a five maybe ten minutes presentation on what they do, maybe a little bit longer. We are going to turn the field over to our audience. We are finding that the audience is asking questions like, what type of loan is a good loan? What is the difference between hard money and soft money? What is the difference between how do I set up my LLC? What kind of write off on taxes? What we were doing, because we have a strong team. I would call an Accountant, I would call my Attorney, I would call you guys, as Lenders, and ask the questions. What we found if that there are so many people that just don’t know and we really just wanted to come out and say, “Hey Guys, this is your shot, get all your questions answered”.

Larry: Tell us about this event, where is it going to be, how can we get there, and how much does it cost?

Isaac: It is going to be at $12.00, which just really covers our cost, at the Four Point Sheaton in downtown Charlotte.

Larry: $12.00 per person?

Isaac: $12.99 per person, which is literally nothing for the information you are getting. It is going to be downtown Charlotte at the Four Point Sheraton on February 26, from 9:00 am til 3:00 pm. Again, we are going to start it off, with the Lenders will be going first, then the Accountants, then the Attorneys. We are going to have a session on property management; because one of the things about property management, unfortunately people don’t know, is how to properly evict somebody. We have an eviction specialist that is going to be there. People ask us all the time, it comes up.

Larry: This is really just a part of your services in offering, helping you build a relationship with your customers, right?

Isaac: We want to build the relationship and we are big like you guys are on the team building. We want everyone to have access to the team and if we cannot answer questions, ultimately we do not try. If you give me a question that is a legal question, I would rather my Attorney give you the answer. Because he knows more than me. Our goal is to build a relationship, but I think what will happen is your question might spur the person next to you to think of a question; and their question. I think too often we leave, we get motivated but we don’t get the true answers to our questions. We want all of clients to come with pencils, pens and questions. Think of questions before you leave.

Larry: Ready to take notes.

Isaac: The funny thing is the people participating in it and they are going to stay to learn more. They are going to available after their presentation and before so if all your questions are not answered in the hour or hour and one-half time we have allotted, they are still going to be hanging around.

Larry: That is going to be great. We will definitely be there.

Isaac: Our whole goal really is not to make money off of it. Our goal is how much knowledge can we give to our clients.

Larry: We will be inviting our people. I will put it out on the e-mails before.

Isaac: Knowledge is, it is a dangerous thing giving knowledge.

Larry: Yes, and it is the use of knowledge that is power, not just the knowledge itself.

Isaac: Definitely, the use.

Larry: Once you get it and then you use it.

Isaac: That is what we are setting up, it is literally an answer session. We are going to have one general session on just mistakes we made and some to the tips to the game. It is going to be entitled “Dumb things I have Done”, so you guys don’t have to.

Larry: There you go. That won’t last very long will it?

Isaac: My part could last hours. If we can get clients to avoid making the major mistakes, it becomes an education. That is a benefit to us.

Larry: Isaac, this has been a great call. You have given us a lot of good content, lot of good information.

Isaac: I truly appreciate the opportunity.

Larry: I appreciate it too. It has just been a blast, we have had a great time.

Isaac: I’m like you, I’m big on knowledge, I’m big on education, I’m big on – we get questions that we get asked and sometimes we don’t know; but I guarantee you I will find it out for you. To me, the more knowledgeable Investors there are the more better that is for everybody.

Larry: Isaac, would you give out your contact information one more time and then I am going to tell about a couple of other events coming up.

Isaac: Our phone number is: 704-331-9940, I think I would like to say Larry is with us, we have a team concept so you will no just have one agent dealing with you as a client. You will have five or six eyeballs on your portfolio.

Larry: That is a new concept, I like that.

Isaac: Also, if one of your Agents is not available, let’s say he is on vacation, you don’t have to stick around. There are going to be several other people who are going to be there. Our website is: www.businesstrackrealty.com.

Larry: That is great. I would like to take a minute and tell you people about a couple of other events coming up. Donna Bower, National Speaker, Author, and Trainer who was on my Teleconference last week is going to be at Metrolina REA on the 20th at the main meeting in Charlotte at the Hilton on Tyvola. She also is going to be having an all day event, she is known as the Note Buyer and she has a great product out about doing short sales the short way, buying discounted notes, delinquent and performing notes and doing it without any of your own money or credit. She has a great program, she is a very good speaker, good content, good meat and potatoes, core information. She will be doing an all day event. Since Metolina REA is a non-profit, I and the Board of Directors of Metrolina, elected to have this event, even though it is a $69.00 event, we are paying to have her here all day for Metrolina REA members. Not only Metorlina but if you are a member of any REA group and you hear this or you come to the event if you are a member, just tell us which group you are a member of, you get in for free. We don’t care, our thing is giving back. We are a non-profit association, we want to give back and it is all about the information and the content doing it when we can. If you are not a member, it is $69.00, but if you join, if you show up Saturday morning at the Hilton on Tyvola, just off of I-77 in Charlotte, if you show up there at 8:30 Saturday morning, on January 22nd. If you join Metrolina REA, it is $99.00 individual membership, then you can get in free and you get all the benefits of being a member of Metorlina REA. Or if you go join your club there, we are trying to help the other groups increase their membership. If you join your local group and then just come up and come to our event, it is free.
The other thing I wanted to tell you about our Boot Camp coming up. A lot of people know about that, January 28, 29 and 30, in Myrtle Beach. We are paying for your Hotel room two nights, we are going to have nine different speakers. Myself, Wendy Sweet, Turt Ackabay, John Morrow who was on the Teleconference several months ago talking about luxury homes. He buys about four to five homes a year, minimum of $200,000 a deal and his Dad who is also a multi-millionaire is going to there and introduce John and talk for a few minutes, maybe even do a Q & A session, Gary Brevaco who is going to talk about foreclosures and some private money, and we also have Roger Schwartz who is going to talk about commercial development in Real Estate. We have Wally, who is going to be there talking about commercial financing and I have Gram Treakle who is on his way to becoming a National Speaker and he has a product about Short Sales; and he is going to be there talking about Short Sales, buying properties, pre-foreclosures, doing short sales so it is going to be a lot of fun. We are going to talk about how to analyze deals, how to find deals, negotiating, I am going to make live phone calls right on the spot, you are going to get a forms disk with 58 different documents, I am going to give you a CD with more live phone calls on it and it is going to be a lot of fun. It is $1,495.00 and like I say that includes a Lunch and Learn on Saturday, where we pay for your lunch and we pay for your hotel room at Myrtle Beach. We have about fifteen seats left as of right now, as of today, so actually there was one internet order on the way in here tonight I just pulled up so we actually have fourteen seats left. If anybody wants to sign up for that while we still have some seats available, our number here is 877-527-7946, it is very easy to remember, it is 877-larrygoins and you don’t need the last three letters so it is really 877-larrygo. How do you like that Isaac?

Isaac: I need to get one of those.

Larry: We had to go through a lot numbers to be able to get that. If you would like to sign up for that tonight, I will be here for the next 30-45 minutes, just give me a call. If you have any questions, if you are sitting on the fence, thinking do I really need this, I have already bought some deals, I am just getting started is it going to help me. You call me, I will answer any of your questions. If you go to a Ron LeGrand event they are gone the next day; but you will have my cell number as well as all the speakers that speak at my Boot Camp. They are attainable, reachable and have a lot of knowledge. I am a firm believer that a good idea does not care where it comes from. You do not have to have a Ron LeGrand or a Lewis Brown to come to just to learn from. I mean that is the reason that we do this Brain Pick a Pro Teleconference and have somebody new on it every week. It is a tremendous amount of learning, being able to talk to different people. I have learned a tremendous amount from you tonight, Isaac, and I really, really appreciate you being on the call.

Isaac: I appreciate you having me on it. I hope other people gained some knowledge as well and if they have any questions, I hope they will either contact me or contact someone. We definitely want to get all their questions answered.

Larry: Absolutely, this call is being recorded so I will be editing it and putting it out on the e-mail and on the website in the next week or two and so that way other people will be able to get the information as well.

Isaac: Sounds great!

Larry: Good, well I appreciate your being on and I appreciate everybody else being on the call and everybody have a good night. Have a good night, Isaac.

Hi, this is Larry Goins and I would like to thank you for listening to this audio program. I would also like to remind you to please visit our website at: www.larrygoins.com for other information as well as we have a link for freebies, we have articles that you can read and we also have Three Day Boot Camps as well as the Boot Camp in a Box, which contains the complete Three Day Boot Camp on audio CD as well as DVD Video. Please visit our website for the location and schedule of our One Day and Three Day Boot Camps coming up. We also offer personal coaching and mentoring, so whatever your needs may be please feel free to give us a call. If you are a Real Estate group, Investor Association, Mortgage Company owner or other organization and would like to have either myself or Wendy Sweet or Leon Humphrey speak at your group about Real Estate and Finance and Investing, please feel free to give us a call. Our direct Office number is 803-831-0056, I am at extension 304, Wendy Sweet is 310. I would also like to remind you that we also offer traditional financing as well as hard money and rehab loans for Investors. Please visit our website there at www.financialhelpservices.com. Thank you very much for your businesss, we sincerely appreciate it and please remember our mission is to put people and principles in front of profits. When we do that everybody profits. Thank you and have a Great Day!