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Wholesaling in a Competitive Market with Lance Wakefield

SHOW SUMMARY:

In today's show, Larry talked to Lance Wakefield, a real estate wholesaler in the Dallas area who has been crushing his market. Lance shared how he generates leads, what their competitive advantage is, and how he grew his business in just a short span of time.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:

  • Who Lance is
  • What his business looks like
  • What an ISA (Inbound Sales Assistant) is
  • His marketing strategy
  • Generating leads
  • Their kind of lists
  • Areas he is targeting
  • Cold calling
  • Kind of CRM he is using
  • More automation on their follow-up system
  • Their process when taking calls
  • Setting himself apart from other competitors
  • Their closing timeline
  • How they are selling their properties
  • The average number of days they will hold a property
  • What his typical deals looks like
  • On being ethical
  • Lance's advice to new and aspiring real estate investors
  • How he shows his houses
  • How his business grew so fast and became successful
  • His role in the business

Quotes:

  • “It's a numbers game at the end of the day.”
  • “Marketing is the lifeblood of the business.”
  • “A win-win can be created when there’s a deal to be created.”
  • “Don't mistake kindness for weakness.”

RESOURCES AND LINKS FROM THIS SHOW:

SHOW TRANSCRIPT:

Larry: Welcome to the Brain-Pick-A-Pro Show live from Lake Wylie South Carolina. I’m in my home office today and I’m really excited you can probably tell my voice I’m fighting a cold. But that’s okay we’re going to get through it. So I’m really excited today because today I have a special guest. A guy who is just crashing it in in his market, okay. He is just crushing it and the cool thing is he hadn’t been doing it this long, right. So please give a warm welcome to my good friend Lance Wakefield. What’s going on buddy?

Lance: Hey man how are you doing?

Larry: I’m doing awesome. How about yourself?

Lance: Good. Sounds like you may have had better days but still got enthusiasm over there.

Larry: I know, right man. It’s called fake it till you make it, right.

Lance: I love it.

Larry: So tell our listeners a little bit about yourself.

Lance: Well I’ve got three kids, I got number three 10 days ago.

Larry: Wow congratulations.

Lance: Thank you. I’ve got a six year old, a two-and-a half year old and I have a beautiful wife. And we live in Dallas Texas area, we moved here in 2015 and I started wholesaling in 2016. Got into it, I made about $100,000 in my first month and never looked back. So after that I just doubled down investing in marketing and scaled.

And we’re at a point where we’re doing a ton of deals. End of last year, the business partner and I split up and went on my own beginning of this year. So I’m kind of rescaling up on my own and hope to be back at scale at the end of this year.

Larry: That’s awesome man. So tell us a little bit about-now you’re wholesaling right?

Lance: Yes.

Larry: Good. Now you’re in a very competitive market also.

Lance: Crazy competitive market.

Larry: I know, right. so why don’t you tell our listeners a little bit about what does your business look like as far as people and what do they do and that sort of thing?

Lance: That’s a great question. So we have on the team right now we’ve got an ISA kind of takes all the incoming calls, I also have a small team of outbound callers that are-

Larry: Tell our listeners what an ISA is, they may not understand.

Lance: ISA is Inbound Sales Assistant. Essentially they answer phones when they ring and they take those, go to [Inaudible] [02:28] for us.

Larry: A lead manager.

Lance: Yeah a lead manager. She manages our leads, she’s the first point of contact at the business. So when somebody calls in everybody pretty much goes through her.

Larry: That’s awesome. Is that 24/7 or is that just until five?

Lance: I think she’s about nine to six and then we’ve got a couple of different things to cover a little bit later in the evening. If anybody calls us at two in the morning, we call them back the next day.

Larry: Yeah it’s going to voicemail.

Lance: We do have a little work-life balance.

Larry: Right, there you go.

Lance: Yeah so she handles that, then I’ve got two acquisition managers. They get property under contract for us. She disperses the leads out to them. Once they the properties under contract they hand the contract over to a transaction coordinator, who gets them into title, once they’re in title she hands them over to our dispositions person.

We market the properties through buyer’s lists and different platforms like investor things like that, Facebook. And then they’re under contract with the end buyer, we hand them over to the transaction coordinator and she closes them out with the private company.

Larry: That’s awesome, man you got a machine going on.

Lance: Yeah man. Just flush those dollars into marketing and the leads turn out, they just go in the system. And for every so many people that we reach out, so many people become leads. From those leads we have conversion. And it’s just a numbers game at the end of the day.

Larry: That’s sweet, I love it. So a lot of people I interview on this show, we talk about marketing right, because marketing is the lifeblood of the business, right.

Lance: Yes sir.

Larry: Tell us a little bit about what you do.

Lance: We do direct mail. In my busiest months I’ve sent out probably around 200,000 pieces of direct mail.

Larry: Wow.

Lance: Right now we’re averaging about 80 to 100,000 pieces of direct mail a month. That’s our specialty, we do scenario marketing as well and we also do some cold calling.

Larry: Okay cool.

Lance: So those are our three main methods for generating leads.

Larry: So tell us about what kind of lists do you mail and what do you send to them.

Lance: So our postcard is pretty generic. Our copy is just a white postcard, black font saying we want to buy your house. I’m a pretty firm believer that copy doesn’t matter a ton, your list is more important. It’s not like you’re going to get a postcard in the mail and be like, “oh my goodness, someone wants to buy home? Honey we’re selling the house. We’re leaving.” That’s not how it works no.

Larry: Right.

Lance: They get the postcard and they’re like, “Yeah I’ve been thinking about selling for a while and let’s see what this guy has to say.”

Larry: Right.

Lance: So I’m not going to generate or create from a copy of the card.

Larry: You just catch them at the right time.

Lance: Yeah. It’s all about catching them at the right time. To me it’s more about the list. So I’ve been using List Source lately and just doing an equity list and pretty generic I don’t want anybody that bought or sold a property in the last five years. The DFW metroplex has seriously increased some property values essentially since 2011 through now.

If somebody bought it in 2011 or prior they have equity. I’m doing some equity searching but I’m not real heavy on the equity, I just want to know they’ve owned the house for basically more than seven years.

Larry: Right.

Lance: As long as they have I pretty much know they’re good. We’re also targeting people who’re older. We don’t get a ton of people in their thirties selling us their homes. So we’re mostly hitting people 50 and over. That’s pretty much my criteria, I’m looking at the areas that I have buyers in. I have buyers in all the areas but just doing the areas where there’s more demand.

Larry: Right.

Lance: So that’s the big thing I’m targeting, is just those areas where there’s a lot of demand from buyers. So we’re targeting those areas and then everybody-the areas that we’re mailing, we’re also trying to cold call in those same areas. So we’re kind of hitting them with two different approaches.

And then we’re doing some pay-per-click stuff. Not big time on that, only spending a couple thousand bucks a month on that right now, experimenting to see where we want to invest more capital or more marketing dollars online platforms.

Larry: Now with the cold calling, how do you get the phone numbers? Are you calling the same lists and how do you get the phone numbers?

Lance: Yeah we skip trace the phone numbers. And yeah we’re calling same lists.

Larry: What do you use, TLO or something like that?

Lance: Yeah Lexus Nexus offers a bulk skip trace offer, so you upload 10, 20, 30,000 at a time and get the phone numbers for all of them. And we upload those spreadsheets into dialers and our virtual assistants get on the dialers and just dial for eight hours a day.

Larry: That’s awesome. Now are you using Mojo or Vulcan or?

Lance: Yeah I use Mojo.

Larry: Mojo. How do you guys like Mojo?

Lance: It’s good. I wish it had a little bit more as far as using a lot of metrics. It just doesn’t give me an easy to interpret those metric. So I’m working with a different VA right now who is helping us to build out our dashboard. We already have a dashboard for all the leads and money in, leads in, contract period all that stuff.

We don’t have anything for cold calls specific so we’re building out a dashboard for it right now, so that we can more like derive more data with that.

Larry: That’s good. You mentioned about a dashboard and follow up system, that’s very important especially with direct mail because you and I both know you don’t get your deals all of them on the first mailing or on the first contact. So you got to continuously follow up. What kind of CRM do you use?

Lance: We use a CRM called Pipedrive, it’s really basic. But I like it, it’s simple. I could show you it and you could figure out how to use it in a couple minutes. And that’s what we like, Salesforce or Podio and a lot of these different CRMs are so robust and are so capable of doing so many things. But it can get super complicated to understand how to use them and train on them. What I like about Pipedrive is it is intuitive and simple and really easy to use.

It doesn’t have some of those whistles that would like but with how easy it is to use it kind of makes up for it, and it’s also cheap. It’s crazy cheap compared to some of those other CRMs. So we can afford to pay a VA five bucks an hour to do some small different things for us throughout the month, and give us a lot of the same pieces of information that we would get if we had invested in a more robust CRM.

Larry: Right. Now what do you use for follow up like follow orders finders and text messaging and ring less voicemail and stuff like that?

Lance: That’s a great question. As far as follow up goes, we don’t have a good system right now. That’s actually on my list of things to do is figure out how we’re going to create more automation in our follow up.

Larry: Right.

Lance: Right now we do a lot of manual follow up which as you know it can be very time intensive.

Larry: Right.

Lance: So we’re looking if anyone has any good advice for a good follow up system, I would love to look at it. I mean at the end of the day follow up wins the game with pretty much any sales. So for us we spend a lot of time doing follow up. We’re getting so many leads in now, we’ve got to figure out a way to get the follow up off the acquisition manager’s plate and onto an automated system.

Larry: That’s good. Now Podio offers a good follow up system and there’s some other ones out there as you know like Freedomsoft or Realflow, REI Blackbook they’re just out of the box type systems. But we use Podio, we like it. So you mentioned about a VA. Is it a VA in the states or in the Philippines or what?

Lance: Both. We have people that work for us here inside the USA. Most of the people are interfacing but all the people basically that are interfacing with clients are from the United States.

Larry: That’s a great move there.

Lance: Yeah. So our VAs are from- our cold calling VAs aren’t from the USA but their touch is so short that and the amount of volume they’re able to do I feel makes up for it. Our cold callers are outside the USA, everybody else who works remotely for us is inside the USA.

Larry: That’s a good point. Now when your inside sales assistant, or your lead manager, when they take the call, are they booking an appointment with everybody that’ll set an appointment or how will they handle that?

Lance: No, actually all they get is a few pieces of information and pass it on. So my personal belief if that there’s a lot of rapport that can be built through a lot of restricting questions that a lot of my competitors have their ISAs go through. My ISAs get name, phone number and property address. That’s it and they may ask for an email.

Larry: Wow, that’s it.

Lance: They don’t do anything with that because my personal opinion is that a lot of guys like them to ask how much they want to for the house, right. My personal opinion is that a very important like sacred question. That’s not something you just ask off the bat.

Larry: Right.

Lance: I think that it’s something that you build a lot of rapport, once the rapport has been built and the client’s comfortable with you, then you will ask that question. And to ask it early is generally going to give you a higher number. If their bottom line is $150,000 for a property and your ISA says, “Hey how much?” they’re like, “200.”

Larry: Right.

Lance: But if you spend time building a relationship with that client and you’ve spent time understanding their needs and what’s most important to them and you can speak to them in their language, and then you ask them that question, it may not be 150 but it portably won’t be 200 either.

Larry: It’s going to be closer.

Lance: And then you’ve got a shorter, a lot less negotiation needs to happen to get them to that bottom dollar point for them.

Larry: There you go, that’s great. Obviously you have a lot of competition in your area. So what are you doing? Give our listeners some ideas what you’re doing to set yourself apart, because I’m sure when your acquisition guys go in a house, the home owner’s got a stack of postcards this high probably from other wholesalers or other investors.

Lance: So right there is something we do different. We contract nine out of 10 properties without ever having been to them.

Larry: What?

Lance: We don’t go to the property. So that’s initially one thing we do to set ourselves apart.

Larry: Wow. Now how do you do that? Explain that.

Lance: You only need to go the property if you tell us, “I really need you to go to the property.”

Larry: That’s a good point. So what about- I’m sure somebody goes afterwards to look at the condition, take pictures and all that.

Lance: Yeah we estimate repairs over the phone. I mean I’ve estimated repairs on over 1,000 homes now over the phone. And as long as the seller is honest with me, my estimates are pretty darn close like you don’t necessary need, I mean if you’re working on homes that were built in 1910, and you’re trying to do an add-on and this and that, yeah you got to be there and see it.

Larry: Right.

Lance: But if you’re looking at 1975 3:2:2, there’s not a ton to it. It’s got two bathrooms, it’s got a kitchen. You can put a decent looking flooring throughout the house if it’s the square footage that it is. Paint per square foot costs what it costs. And the only reason that you need to go to the property is to verify whether what they’re saying is true.

Larry: Right.

Lance: So don’t want to ask them; what condition is the foundation and HVAC, plumbing, electrical, when was the kitchen updated, all that stuff. And sometimes people lie and that’s fine. I only have $100 [Inaudible] [14:35] money on the property. And a 15 days auction for 50 bucks so whatever. If they really want to lie and we go out to that property, my worst case is I lose 100 bucks. Well okay, I’ll suffer that loss.

Larry: Right.

Lance: And honestly, in hundreds of deals, it’s happened a handful of times. I mean we’re talking nine out of 10 times. We’re on the same page and honesty is there and one out of 10 it’s not a dishonest thing it’s basically just John Doe.

Larry: Right.

Lance: Some of them carry the property they haven’t seen in 20 years, they have no clue.

Larry: Right.

Lance: So that happens more than someone being maliciously dishonest with us. It does happen. I had somebody explain a property to me and they explained everything completely accurate, they just omitted the fact that this tree had fallen through the living room and destroyed most of the house. So if I can get out there, it’s like, “Come on man, you think we’re going to notice that?”

Larry: Right.

Lance: So it happens but it’s just so infrequent that it really doesn’t merit going out to the property.

Larry: So basically if you’re not going out looking for the property, how many calls do you typically make or how many touches does your acquisition guys have with the seller before they send them out a contract?

Lance: Generally two or three touches before a contract.

Larry: Okay.

Lance: Well we get the ARV without going to the house, right. You don’t need to see the house at all for ARV.

Larry: Right.

Lance: Honestly it’s pretty pointless to see the house to create an ARV. You know the span of the home, the square feet your build, with all that information on tax, we can ARV it. And then the only area where it’s like well there is some grey is in the repairs.

Larry: Right.

Lance: And we’ve got some strategies for how we estimate repairs and things and that’s all we do.

Larry: That’s awesome. Now what kind of a closing timeline do you set up; 30, 60, 90 days or 15 days?

Lance: Usually 45, sorry.

Larry: 45.

Lance: Usually 45 is our average. 20 to 45 somewhere in there. From the day we contract, within 48 hours we have a render out at the property, a lockbox on the property if we can, photos back in and the contract is at title.

Larry: Right.

Lance: So usually within- if there is a discrepancy with what we believe repairs to be and what they actually are, we try and address it within those first 48 hours.

Larry: That’s good that is really good.

Lance: Yeah you get a really pissed off seller when you call them the day before closing and them, “Well the repairs are more than we thought.”

Larry: Right. You don’t want to do that.

Lance: So things we can pick up immediately, say, “Hey well you said that it was this or I understood it was this, and what we’re seeing is actually this.” so we’ve got to figure out how to make this work whether it’s either price reduction or cancel the contract.

Larry: Man that’s awesome. That’s really good stuff because most people do go out to the house. And it takes a lot of time and money to send an acquisition guy out to the house or maybe a lead.

Lance: Well we live in Dallas Fort Worth we live in Texas right. Texas is a big freaking place.

Larry: Right.

Lance: And Instate or DFW I mean that metroplex from end to end, two and a half hours. So for our guys to be in an appointment in South West Fort Worth and then have to go to an appointment in Princeton which is East of McKinney I mean Laurel, that’s a two hour drive and if you hit traffic forget about it. They’re shot and they go to two or three appointments.

We’re on the phone we’re talking to 50 people a day. So we totally lose contract because we don’t go to the property, we know that. But we also gain because we don’t go to the property. So it’s that give and take, we’re creating a business that fits our lifestyle. One of my acquisition managers lives in Hawaii and the other one lives in Montana.

Larry: That’s cool.

Lance: They’re not even here.

Larry: That’s cool. How did you find them?

Lance: I went to high school with both of them. I grew up in Hawaii and all three of us went to high school together in Hawaii, one of them is in Montana and the other one still lives out in Hawaii.

Larry: That’s awesome.

Lance: They come into the office once, twice a month, but for the most part, they’ll go visit people, they’ll coordinate so that you get that good old boy whose handshake look you in the eyes, shaking your hand type of guy. And go out and meet with them but most of them we don’t need to do that.

Larry: That’s really good. What kind of volume are you doing?

Lance: Right now we’re averaging about 15 contracts a month. We want it to be at about 30 a month by the end of the year, is where we’re shooting for.

Larry: That’s sweet. Since your properties can be like two and a half hours from end of one market to the other, how are you selling your properties? Is it an all buyers’ list or craigslist or what?

Lance: We don’t do Craigslist anymore. Man we just had too many people show up at the seller’s how and they saw my ad on craigslist and crap like that. It’s just not worth the stress.

Larry: Right.

Lance: And I think we only ended up selling a couple of properties on Craigslist. Yeah so we don’t do craigslist but Connected Investor, My House Deals, Facebook. I mean there’s the real estate investing Facebook groups here in DFW have 20,000 people in them. And we’ve got our buyers’ list in DFW I think is 26 or 28,000 people now.

Larry: That’s great.

Lance: So between all of that, we get the property in front of a lot of the people there looking.

Larry: That’s awesome.

Lance: And we’re also wholesaling more and more properties as well.

Larry: Okay. Are you putting them on the MLS?

Lance: So we get them under a contract to wholesale, just like we would. And then if the property is right we will close on it and put it directly on the MLS and sell it on the MLS.

Larry: Wow okay.

Lance: Because typically we’re looking for- and sometimes we’ll clean them up like if it’s got a hoarder or whatever living there or a cat lady we’ll clean it out but we’re not going to improve anything. We’re going to clean it.

Larry: Right.

Lance: Most glaring issues like we might patch up some stuff but we’re not going to popping and grinding there or anything like that.

Larry: What’s your average number of days you hold a property?

Lance: Oh not long. We’re putting them out as deals on the MLS, so we give multiple offers usually when we contract them, five days.

Larry: Okay that’s really good.

Lance: DFW market is crazy. I mean if you’ve got a property that $250,000 is the deal, you’re going to have 10, 20 offers on it. It’s competitive right now for anything that could be a rental basically, not rental but price only.

Larry: Wow. So what does a typical deal look like; average price, you’re buying it for and selling it for.

Lance: Pretty typical would be about $20,000ARV and maybe like $150,000. $200,000 somewhere in there. Pretty typical where we’re generally contracting them at around 70cents on the dollar, 65 to 75 less repairs. And we’re doing like somewhere about 80cents on dollar less repairs.

Larry: Wow, okay. That’s good.

Lance: General, there’s areas where guys will pay 85cents on the dollar, there’s areas where guys pay 75cents on the dollar. So it’s in that range would be pretty typical for us. Every now and then we get that homerun deal where somebody wants $30,000 for $150,000 property. And we’re like, “Great.” But that’s not the norm it happens once every couple of months. But pretty typical.

Larry: Man that’s really good. So is there anything else you’d like to share with our listeners? I mean man this has been just phenomenal. I mean I know we’re just sitting here having a conversation but every time I hear something that triggers something I’ll ask another question. And you’ve just shared so much cool information this is great.

Lance: Part of what I like to do is I’m a big believer in my wholesale company is called Win-Win Homebuyers. I’m a big believer in a win-win can be created when there’s a deal to be created. So one thing that I see a lot with a lot of wholesalers have come to me over the past couple years and said, “Hey mentor me, tell me how I can do better.”

And a big thing that I would push on them is to say, “Be ethical, be honest.” We’re not going into a lot of these homes and saying, "Hey we're buying your house." We're telling a lot of these people that we’re going to resell their house. We’re not trying to pull the curtain over anyone's eyes with our buyers. We're trying to be really straightforward.

No, we're not so straightforward as saying we'll tell you what we have in our contract act because generally we find that people use that against us pretty harshly. But for the most part we're really straightforward and we're really honest. And we’re trying to always create that win-win experience for the buyer, for the seller, for us.

We want people to be successful and that abundance mentality has in my opinion been a huge reason that we've been so successful. Like I'll share stuff because I'm not scared of people coming in and taking over. All the information I give out available, you can find it online. It’s not like this crazy secret thing right.

Larry: Right.

Lance: A lot of people like to really keep everything close to the chest and they'll screw over a seller and a buyer to make a profit. And I see that happen all the time and I'm like, “Yeah, no wonder you're not successful. Who’s ever going to do business with you again if you treat people that way?”

Larry: Exactly.

Lance: So I'd say that's the thing that sets me apart because even in the real estate investment communities wholesalers are kind of the leftover. A lot of people don't like us that I've ever met. We're not as respected and I think in a lot of ways it's because of the way a lot of wholesalers interact with a lot of investors as well as sellers.

So I would just say overarching that's the most important thing to me is I want people to leave having had a good experience. I would say don't mistake kindness for weakness. Just because I want to be ethical with somebody when I have a seller to give the higher offer and he's in contract with me and you’re trying to screw me over I'm not going to just lay down and take it either.

Larry: Right.

Lance: But I do try and understand the situation and try and work through it in an effective way rather than just emotional lash outs and things like that. So that would be I would think the biggest thing that I would share with any new up and coming want-to-make-it wholesaler or real estate investor in general honestly business person in general.

I would say that one of the most important thing is treating other people ethically and how you’d want to be treated. And when you do that it comes back, I've always had it come back in many ways and work out very well. So that's an important part of real estate investment for me.

Larry: So let me ask you another quick question before we go and I really appreciate all you've shared. How do you show your houses? That's always a big concern especially if it's occupied or if your sales guy doesn't go there or whatever. How do you show them houses?

Lance: We do go out there and we sell them. We always have a person present selling what we’re doing and showing. It depends on the property space, right. If it's seller occupied with a pissed off crazy seller, we're probably not going to do the showing.

We're probably going to get one or two people in, buyers that we know they can close and have a good relationship with us and are easy to work with. Because we're probably going to have a seller that's difficult to work with, the last thing we need is a buyer and a seller that's difficult to work with. That's a sales disaster.

So we try and focus on having showings and going out to the property. But if we can't we will figure out different things till we can get the property sold. And we sell properties sight-unseen all the time. I mean there's investors from New York, California, Miami, Seattle, Hawaii and overseas that but from us.

Larry: Right.

Lance: And those buyers are sight-unseen.

Larry: Now are most of your buyers fix and flip investors or landlords?

Lance: Yeah it totally depends. In the DFW market most stuff that's under about 200,000 bucks could be a rental. Rental rates are good here so we have a lot of rental investors. There's a lot of really large funds and different things like that right in DFW because the market is appreciating and fast growing.

Larry: Right.

Lance: So you can go to the Restel and get great cash flow and zero appreciation or negative appreciation. You can go to California and get great appreciation and negative cash flow but Texas offers both. It offers cash flow and appreciation.

Larry: Man, you get both there. That’s awesome.

Lance: Yeah.

Larry: That’s really good.

Lance: We have an extremely stable market. It’s got in the 80s we were [Inaudible] [27:10] right, now we’re like 20%. We’re 20% insurance, 20% healthcare, we’ve got a really diversified very stable economy. So that just makes it even that much sweeter that recessions like in 2009 I only lived here for a few months in 2009 during the recession. But real estate didn’t take that much of dip here.

Larry: Right.

Lance: It did, don’t get me wrong. But it wasn’t like Phoenix where you went from $300,000 property to a $30,000 property or whatever.

Larry: Right.

Lance: In the recession it was $300,000 to 250. It wasn’t as bad so there’s a lot of factors like that the negative track and for people doing the best here. And we love working with out-of-state buyers. They usually [Inaudible] [27:57] terms they get and are static for the deals we put out, whereas the buyers here will complain a little bit more. Because they remember when the same house in Dallas 10 years ago cost 20,000 but we’re selling them for 200.

Larry: Sure. Now you don’t rehab the houses or put a tenant in them. Do you?

Lance: No, so I’ve done the landlording thing. I’m probably going to start building up a rental portfolio again.

Larry: Right.

Lance: And I’m toying with the idea of doing the occasional flip. I generally don’t but we’ve got enough systems and infrastructure in place now that we could. So we’re toying with the idea of bring on a private manager to handle a handful or flips for us at any given time. We’ve got the deal, we’ve got the money. So it’s like, well why not?

Larry: There you go. That’s good. So do you have any parting words of wisdom you’d like to share with our listeners?

Lance: I would say one of the most important things in this industry is the reputation and how you work with other people. Everybody asks me, how did I grow so fast? And that’s my answer is I treated other people fairly, I work really hard. But I treat everybody fairly so that when we do cross paths again because if you’re in a real estate investment community in your market you will cross paths with people over and over.

Larry: Right.

Lance: I don’t want them to have a bad taste in their mouths for me. I want them to always be like, “He was fair.” If nothing else I was fair. I might not be the nicest guy in the room I might not be the smartest guy in the room but I try to be one of the hardest working and one of the fairest. So I would say that those have served me well and I don’t see why they wouldn’t serve anybody else very well.

Larry: Man I really love that that is great. We have a philosophy in our office that’s very similar. I stole it from Truett Cathy, you know who Truett Cathy is, right?

Lance: No I’ve never heard of him.

Larry: He’s the founder of Chick Fil A, the only fast food restaurant closed on Sunday. That should tell you something.

Lance: Yes sir.

Larry: But he has a business philosophy that we’ve adopted at our office and we put it on everything. It’s called People and Principles Before Profits. When you do that everyone profits.

Lance: Yeah. I mean Chick Fill A has got to be one of the fastest growing fast food restaurants in America. I mean I’ve seen it going up all over the place. I don’t know that at all I’m just guessing. But I couldn’t agree more with that. I mean everybody loves to talk about how much money they make, but when it’s at the expense of other people, it’s not worth it. It’s just not.

Larry: Yeah.

Lance: So we try and live by that and I am very particular about who I hire and I want to make sure that they have principles like that because being around those principles if somebody has them, I can elevate them right but I can’t create them in somebody.

Larry: Right.

Lance: So if they’re a person of low ethics or of morals or whatever, I can’t create that in them. If they want to create that, I can help create a breeding ground where it can be created but it’s up to the individual. So for us, it’s super important that our people are this way too because it doesn’t do any good for me to be that way and then to hire guys who are schmucks, right.

I’d rather hire guys that are good guys that care about other people and doing people right. They also want to make money and both can happen. They don’t cross each other out, they co-exist very nicely. And now we have people like I have people calling me saying, “Hey I’ve got this deal can you help me sell it? I’ve got this, can you help me with that?”

And it generates hundreds of thousands of dollars of revenue for us every year just based on gratification. So it paid me back this thousands of times over being ethical to people.

Larry: That’s great.

Lance: And it’s something that’s overlooked so much I feel in particularly wholesaling, but sometimes in the industry as a whole.

Larry: And that’s something you can’t train people to do. You hire the right person and then teach them the right skills.

Lance: Yeah that’s what we try and do and it’s worked out great.

Larry: That’s awesome man.

Lance: So I’m a huge believer in that. If those things are right, everything else will fall into place.

Larry: That’s so awesome.

Lance: If those things aren’t there, you’re going to be battling it forever and it’s always going to be a miserable grind. So something that you’re proud to say you do and enjoy what you do is so different and I’ve been in those businesses where it’s a negative whatever we can do to make a buck. But I hated it. I might be too far away from it, I’m trying too hard not to create it. But I don’t care, I love it. I think it’s great to interact with people that way.

Larry: Well your success speaks for itself.

Lance: Thank you.

Larry: That’s great. Man I really appreciate it. What can our listeners do for you? I mean feel free to give out your contact information if you’d like.

Lance: Yeah reach out. If you’re looking to buy property if you’re looking to do anything in DFW with real estate, reach out. My name again is Lance Wakefield. You can find me on Facebook, I’m on LinkedIn, I’m on BiggerPockets. And if you want to buy properties from us, whatever you’d like to do feel free to reach out.

We’re always looking for more buyers, always looking for new projects. I would say I think you would know that finding a new fine interesting project to do is what helps keep this business and this industry interesting.

Larry: That’s true.

Lance: I always like looking at new things that I haven’t done where somebody needs to partner or whatever. So I’m always open to stuff like that just because it keeps things fun and interesting. It’s really fun generating a ton of leads but when you do it we get the wicked business sexy feel a little bit. So I’m always looking for new projects.

Larry: You’re right. It kind of gets monotonous so speaking of that what do you do in the business? I mean you got acquisition people, you got a lead manager, a closing person and sales guy. So what do you do in the business?

Lance: So I’m kind of like I’ll do some sales management where I’m working with our guys on hitting goals and all of that. I work on a lot of business development. Like recently we partnered with two hard money lenders in the area. So when we send out a flyer to sell a property, they’re on the flyer and they give links to their applications and those sorts of things.

Larry: Right.

Lance: But they’re also verifying our numbers. Everybody loves to say the wholesalers’ numbers are bullcrap and ours aren’t. Ours are legitimate numbers. So both of these hard money companies are saying, “We’re going to lend at their ARV and according to their repairs because they’re accurate. They’re not BS to make it a deal.

So all of that are types of things that I really enjoy doing is hey how could we be more effective? How could we make more money? So I’m working on those sorts of things at any given time, different projects and different things. Like right now I’m helping my wife who’s kind of spearheading the internet marketing stuff.

And I’m supporting in that and helping to find the right people who can spearhead that for us and doing those sorts of things. And I also do some coaching on the side. I enjoy that a lot, I love watching clients excel and grow and do well. So that’s another thing that I spend some time doing every week. But I work about 30-35 hours a week and them spend a lot of time with family. I mean I got three little kids. So I try to be there rather than the office grinding.

Larry: That’s awesome.

Lance: But when I work, I work as hard as I can to get as much time as I can to stay as productive as I can.

Larry: Sweet man. Now I got to tell you man, this has been just a great interview. And you just shared so much information but the most important part of this whole thing is about how you run your business and how you do treat people the way they want to be treated. And do fair good clean honest ethical business. I got a saying; Do it right, sleep at night. And I can tell you’re living that. And I just appreciate you, you’re an example for people in this industry and I appreciate what you’re doing.

Lance: Thank you. I really appreciate you inviting me on. It’s been great chatting with you today. And I wish your listeners the best of luck and they’ve found a great podcast to listen to. So thanks a lot.

Larry: Awesome. Hey thanks a lot man I do really appreciate it.

Lance: Thank you.

[End of Recording] [36:24]